Kagyu Tree

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kalden yungdrung
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Kagyu Tree

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:09 am

Tashi delek,

Below a Lineage Tree of the Kagyud Tradition.
The Lineage is very well explained here.

Also Gampopa unites Indian Tantra with Indian Buddhism, and can be seen as the central Person.

- Jamgön Kongtrul Rinpoche, how did he enter Kagyud. What is his relation with Shangpa Kagyud ?
- Can we see here the Indian Tantra from Kashmir or more from Uddhiyana ?


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Kagyud Tree - 00.jpg
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The best meditation is no meditation

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conebeckham
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Re: Kagyu Tree

Post by conebeckham » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:55 pm

Isn't this from one of those True Buddha self-proclaimed Rinpoches of Chinese descent? He has a lineage tree for every lineage, showing how he (ostensibly) inherited every Tibetan Vajrayana lineage?

Indian Tantra and Indian Buddhism are not two different things, really. Indian Tantra is part of Indian Buddhism. Gampopa was famed for combining monasticism and the Kadam traditions with the oral transmission lineages of Tantra from Marpa to Mila.......

Kongtrul Lodro Taye was originally a Nyingma Monk, later became a Karma Kagyu monk,, though he was conflicted about this for his entire life. He also revitalized the Shangpa practices and traditions--they were "thin on the ground" at his time. Kongtrul held many lineages, though--including the Kamstang Kagyu Mahamudra tradition, Six Yogas of Naropa, etc.

I have some other issues with this diagram, but I'll just let it be.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Miroku
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Re: Kagyu Tree

Post by Miroku » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:51 pm

The graph is seriously lacking to say the least. Kagyu lineages are rather complex and there are also schools that were lost or reabsorbed into bigger schools and etc. To demonstrate how lacking the chart is ... from Phagmodrukpa's 8 disciples 8 schools came into being, from which Drikung and Drukpa schools are the most famous today. Also Karmapa had Shamarpa and Tai Situpa with him way longer than just from 16th Karmapa, etc. etc. etc.
I know it is a simplified chart, however it makes matter too simple.

As Cone wrote, Indian Tantra is Buddhist. It is not like the Buddhists just came and took Tilopa and Naropa as their own. No. Tilopa received teachings from many Buddhist masters and from pure visions and Naropa was a pandita, so the lineage is purely Buddhist.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Kagyu Tree

Post by Tenma » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:49 am

conebeckham wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:55 pm
Isn't this from one of those True Buddha self-proclaimed Rinpoches of Chinese descent? He has a lineage tree for every lineage, showing how he (ostensibly) inherited every Tibetan Vajrayana lineage?

Indian Tantra and Indian Buddhism are not two different things, really. Indian Tantra is part of Indian Buddhism. Gampopa was famed for combining monasticism and the Kadam traditions with the oral transmission lineages of Tantra from Marpa to Mila.......

Kongtrul Lodro Taye was originally a Nyingma Monk, later became a Karma Kagyu monk,, though he was conflicted about this for his entire life. He also revitalized the Shangpa practices and traditions--they were "thin on the ground" at his time. Kongtrul held many lineages, though--including the Kamstang Kagyu Mahamudra tradition, Six Yogas of Naropa, etc.

I have some other issues with this diagram, but I'll just let it be.
Actually, it's from the "Dorje Chang III" fraud:

http://xuanfa.net/introduction-to-buddh ... s/buddhas/

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Kagyu Tree

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:18 am

Given the source of this lineage tree, I don't feel it merits discussion and am locking the thread.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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