To my understanding yes. It was the Drikung Vajravarahi with left leg lifted and why. Feel it's used because of conditioning. As soon as you visualize that form you are in phowa mode--Karma_Yeshe wrote:Isn't the real idea behind the way Vajravahari's feet are shown that she is dancing?
Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa schools
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
I should be meditating.
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
That would be one of the short versions, just two or three pages or so long. The full regular sadhana (though to be sure there is more than one) was composed by the 9th Karmapa.lelopa wrote: i think the sadhana of her was created by a sharmapa
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
thxLingpupa wrote:That would be one of the short versions, just two or three pages or so long. The full regular sadhana (though to be sure there is more than one) was composed by the 9th Karmapa.lelopa wrote: i think the sadhana of her was created by a sharmapa
i was told by a german practitioner that the kamtsang phagmo came from a vision of (the 5th, or 6th?) sharmapa and he was the first who wrote a sadhana.
but it could be wrong
Lost In Transmission
- conebeckham
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Kamtsang Yogini/Varahi is from Marpa--though the main sadhana was written by Karmapa Thongwa Donden (6th Karmapa), he incorporated things from Marpa, and previous Karmapas--esp. DuSum Khyenpa and Rangjung Dorje. Pawo Rinpoche wrote the most-used commentaries and liturgies for the retreat practices.
Not to spill too many beans, but the Kamtsang practice includes the Om Sum Ma and the HaRiNiSa mantra....
Not to spill too many beans, but the Kamtsang practice includes the Om Sum Ma and the HaRiNiSa mantra....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
i have two different sadhanas: one with the harinsa-mantra (at navel/secret chakra)conebeckham wrote:.................
Not to spill too many beans, but the Kamtsang practice includes the Om Sum Ma and the HaRiNiSa mantra....
and in the other sadhana is the om-sum is in the heart, etc...
not both mantras in one sadhana.
maybe inner practice & outer practice, or something like that
Lost In Transmission
- conebeckham
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- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
The most common texts relating to Kamtsang Yogini are the "full" sadhana, the one done in Kamtsang monasteries monthly--this is the one I refer to as written by Thongwa Donden. It's about 120 pages long in Tibetan pecha. It was translated by Trungpa, and is what the Dharmadhatu folks use. It's also the basis for monthly tsoks, self-empowerments, etc. and is the basis for three year retreat practice, when appended by some additional liturgy and instructive texts.
The second most common text is the short KyeRim which is actually extracted from the Kamtsang Ngondro. This is a common short daily practice, a commitment practice, and it comes after the Guru Yoga. Just a few pages, in Tibetan maybe 3 or so. This was also translated by a few Dharma Centers/Institutions--some include it in their ngondro text, some have translated it as a separate text, and some leave it out entirely.
Both of these texts have the HaRiNiSa mantra, and when one does the full sadhana in retreat, one also does Om Sum Ma mantra. You need the instructions, etc.
A previous Shamar Rinpoche wrote a GyunKhyer based on bits of the full sadhana, and bits of the Ngnondro Kyerim. It's about twice as long as the Ngondro KyeRim text, and includes Chopa Jinlab, Refuge, 7 branch prayer, offerings, etc. and also includes a short torma offering.
There are other Vajrayogini/Varahi sadhanas written by other Kagyu Lamas,of course. But these are the main ones.
The second most common text is the short KyeRim which is actually extracted from the Kamtsang Ngondro. This is a common short daily practice, a commitment practice, and it comes after the Guru Yoga. Just a few pages, in Tibetan maybe 3 or so. This was also translated by a few Dharma Centers/Institutions--some include it in their ngondro text, some have translated it as a separate text, and some leave it out entirely.
Both of these texts have the HaRiNiSa mantra, and when one does the full sadhana in retreat, one also does Om Sum Ma mantra. You need the instructions, etc.
A previous Shamar Rinpoche wrote a GyunKhyer based on bits of the full sadhana, and bits of the Ngnondro Kyerim. It's about twice as long as the Ngondro KyeRim text, and includes Chopa Jinlab, Refuge, 7 branch prayer, offerings, etc. and also includes a short torma offering.
There are other Vajrayogini/Varahi sadhanas written by other Kagyu Lamas,of course. But these are the main ones.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
H is a wonderful mantra. Causes pleasant feelings, one gets into the zone quickly and you start singing it before you know it.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
I should be meditating.
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Yes, he's a wonderful artist, eh? Then again, a prior Karmapa instituted a whole new style (Karma Gadri tradition). So, not surprising!
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Yes I'always have a problem visualizing the silk. But His Holiness detailed the silk so you could see how it is intertwined and follow easily.
I should be meditating.
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Sorry, thanks Cone for correcting me. 6th.Lingpupa wrote:... was composed by the 9th Karmapa.
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
( And happy Losar!!! )
( And happy Losar!!! )
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Not quite. Vajravarahi has the sow's head protruding from her head (usually from the top, but can be by her ear, I believe). Vajrayogini does not. But they are very close, and there are practice cycles in which she appears as one form at one stage, the other form at another. Vajrayogini, I suppose, is slightly more "generic" (though I don't like to use such a dismissive word of her), while Vajravarahi could be thought of as a special form.togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
( And happy Losar!!! )
Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Almost. Not interchangeable under all circumstances.Malcolm wrote:togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
( And happy Losar!!! )
Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.Lingpupa wrote:Almost. Not interchangeable under all circumstances.Malcolm wrote:togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
( And happy Losar!!! )
Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Perhaps. Maybe even often. But not quite always.Malcolm wrote: In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Always, they both come from the Laghusamvara Tantra, and no distinction is made between Yoginī and Vārāhī, Vajrayoginī is Vajravārāhī and vice verse. The only difference between them is the source of the lineage, but not the nature of the deity.Lingpupa wrote:Perhaps. Maybe even often. But not quite always.Malcolm wrote: In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.
Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho
Sure. But Vajravarahi has the sow's head, Vajrayogini generally not. Whether you call them the same or close but different is up to the way you want to define your terms. It's not very important.Malcolm wrote: Always, they both come from the Laghusamvara Tantra.
You can argue by that method that she is the same deity as Chakrasamvara. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't - but they look different. The rest is little games.
So not always in every case, just many.
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."