Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa schools

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lorem
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lorem » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:52 pm

Karma_Yeshe wrote:Isn't the real idea behind the way Vajravahari's feet are shown that she is dancing?
To my understanding yes. It was the Drikung Vajravarahi with left leg lifted and why. Feel it's used because of conditioning. As soon as you visualize that form you are in phowa mode--
I should be meditating.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:06 pm

lelopa wrote: i think the sadhana of her was created by a sharmapa
That would be one of the short versions, just two or three pages or so long. The full regular sadhana (though to be sure there is more than one) was composed by the 9th Karmapa.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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lelopa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lelopa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:55 pm

Lingpupa wrote:
lelopa wrote: i think the sadhana of her was created by a sharmapa
That would be one of the short versions, just two or three pages or so long. The full regular sadhana (though to be sure there is more than one) was composed by the 9th Karmapa.
thx
i was told by a german practitioner that the kamtsang phagmo came from a vision of (the 5th, or 6th?) sharmapa and he was the first who wrote a sadhana.
but it could be wrong
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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conebeckham
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by conebeckham » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:01 pm

Kamtsang Yogini/Varahi is from Marpa--though the main sadhana was written by Karmapa Thongwa Donden (6th Karmapa), he incorporated things from Marpa, and previous Karmapas--esp. DuSum Khyenpa and Rangjung Dorje. Pawo Rinpoche wrote the most-used commentaries and liturgies for the retreat practices.

Not to spill too many beans, but the Kamtsang practice includes the Om Sum Ma and the HaRiNiSa mantra....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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lelopa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lelopa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:10 pm

conebeckham wrote:.................

Not to spill too many beans, but the Kamtsang practice includes the Om Sum Ma and the HaRiNiSa mantra....
i have two different sadhanas: one with the harinsa-mantra (at navel/secret chakra)
and in the other sadhana is the om-sum is in the heart, etc...
not both mantras in one sadhana.
maybe inner practice & outer practice, or something like that :shrug:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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conebeckham
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by conebeckham » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:25 pm

The most common texts relating to Kamtsang Yogini are the "full" sadhana, the one done in Kamtsang monasteries monthly--this is the one I refer to as written by Thongwa Donden. It's about 120 pages long in Tibetan pecha. It was translated by Trungpa, and is what the Dharmadhatu folks use. It's also the basis for monthly tsoks, self-empowerments, etc. and is the basis for three year retreat practice, when appended by some additional liturgy and instructive texts.

The second most common text is the short KyeRim which is actually extracted from the Kamtsang Ngondro. This is a common short daily practice, a commitment practice, and it comes after the Guru Yoga. Just a few pages, in Tibetan maybe 3 or so. This was also translated by a few Dharma Centers/Institutions--some include it in their ngondro text, some have translated it as a separate text, and some leave it out entirely.

Both of these texts have the HaRiNiSa mantra, and when one does the full sadhana in retreat, one also does Om Sum Ma mantra. You need the instructions, etc.

A previous Shamar Rinpoche wrote a GyunKhyer based on bits of the full sadhana, and bits of the Ngnondro Kyerim. It's about twice as long as the Ngondro KyeRim text, and includes Chopa Jinlab, Refuge, 7 branch prayer, offerings, etc. and also includes a short torma offering.

There are other Vajrayogini/Varahi sadhanas written by other Kagyu Lamas,of course. But these are the main ones.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Konchog1
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Konchog1 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:15 pm

H is a wonderful mantra. Causes pleasant feelings, one gets into the zone quickly and you start singing it before you know it.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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lorem
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lorem » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:01 am

Image

Beautiful. Here by His Holiness.
I should be meditating.

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conebeckham
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by conebeckham » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:03 am

Yes, he's a wonderful artist, eh? Then again, a prior Karmapa instituted a whole new style (Karma Gadri tradition). So, not surprising!
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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lorem
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lorem » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:19 am

Yes I'always have a problem visualizing the silk. But His Holiness detailed the silk so you could see how it is intertwined and follow easily.
I should be meditating.

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lelopa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by lelopa » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:17 am

@ conebeckham

:thanks:

:cheers:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:13 am

Lingpupa wrote:... was composed by the 9th Karmapa.
Sorry, thanks Cone for correcting me. 6th.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

togg
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by togg » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:20 pm

Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical? :shrug:
( And happy Losar!!! )

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:46 pm

togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical?
Not quite. Vajravarahi has the sow's head protruding from her head (usually from the top, but can be by her ear, I believe). Vajrayogini does not. But they are very close, and there are practice cycles in which she appears as one form at one stage, the other form at another. Vajrayogini, I suppose, is slightly more "generic" (though I don't like to use such a dismissive word of her), while Vajravarahi could be thought of as a special form.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Malcolm
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Malcolm » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:53 pm

togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical? :shrug:
( And happy Losar!!! )

Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:33 pm

Malcolm wrote:
togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical? :shrug:
( And happy Losar!!! )

Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
Almost. Not interchangeable under all circumstances.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Malcolm
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Malcolm » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:30 pm

Lingpupa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
togg wrote:Are Vajrayogini and Vajravarahi identical? :shrug:
( And happy Losar!!! )

Yes, in fact they are the same deity, same mantra, etc.
Almost. Not interchangeable under all circumstances.
In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:51 am

Malcolm wrote: In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.
Perhaps. Maybe even often. But not quite always.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Malcolm
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Malcolm » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:20 pm

Lingpupa wrote:
Malcolm wrote: In gSar ma, they definitely are interchangeable.
Perhaps. Maybe even often. But not quite always.
Always, they both come from the Laghusamvara Tantra, and no distinction is made between Yoginī and Vārāhī, Vajrayoginī is Vajravārāhī and vice verse. The only difference between them is the source of the lineage, but not the nature of the deity.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Lingpupa
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Re: Differences between Vajravarahi practice in Kagyupa scho

Post by Lingpupa » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:52 pm

Malcolm wrote: Always, they both come from the Laghusamvara Tantra.
Sure. But Vajravarahi has the sow's head, Vajrayogini generally not. Whether you call them the same or close but different is up to the way you want to define your terms. It's not very important.

You can argue by that method that she is the same deity as Chakrasamvara. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't - but they look different. The rest is little games.

So not always in every case, just many.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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