Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

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Palzang Jangchub
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Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Khedrub Karma Chagme I (1613-1678)---the embodiment of the Three Kayas who are Amitabha, Avalokiteshvara & Padmasambhava---was at one time a candidate for the title of 10th Karmapa, and was said to be his activity emanation since the 10th Karmapa was not able to be present much in Tibet in that life. He was at once both an accomplished yogi-mahasiddha who spent much of his life in retreat, and one of the most influential scholars and authors of his time. His Richö, or "Mountain Dharma," derived from teachings given thru a hole in the wall during his own retreat, is still the de-facto guide on retreat to this day within many of the 4 elder and 8 younger lineages of the Kagyu school. He was also responsible for recognizing the young tertön Mingyur Dorje (revealer of the Namchö cycle of Dzogchen), serving as the scribe for the terma teachings the prodigy received thru visions. The Namchö now form the core of the Palyul lineage of the Nyingma school, and are of great importance to the Kamtsang as well.

http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Karm ... _Raga_Asey

In short, Karma Chagme's realization and activity were incomprehensibly vast and profound. Currently there is a 7th Karma Chagme in the Neydo sub-branch of the Karma Kagyu lineage (which he formed and heads), and a less widely known 9th incarnation in the Drikung Kagyu lineage. Much like Gyalwang Rinchen Phuntsok before him, the 1st Karma Chagme was an early predecessor of the Rimé movement, fully integrating Dzogchen terma into the Kamtsang lineage of Mahamudra in a skillful display of non-duality. He was a great compiler and editor of texts, many of which would not be in their current form if not for his diligence in preserving and distilling the teachings. In this way, he was likely a role model for Jamgön Kongtrul Lodrö Thaye, who would follow in his footsteps, and even work with many of his same texts.

You get the picture... :soapbox:

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I was wondering if anyone knows of any good sources for information on Karma Chagme (besides Mountain Dharma and his outer namthar of Namchö Mingyur Dorje), specifically in regards to the practice curriculum he instituted for the Neydo lineage? Unfortunately, the Neydo Foundation has a very small website and seems to be based mostly in Asia apart from a center in NY, having no formal organization to speak of in the West.

Chagme Rinpoche is of primary importance to me, personally, as I hold all three lineages which he and his tulku lines have been involved in. I suspect getting info about him and what he accomplished out there would benefit countless beings.

So anything you folks know, especially in relation to the Chöd practices he did or had his students engage in, would be of paramount interest. :popcorn:
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

His Holiness the 7th Ngom Neydo Chagme Rinpoche (performing the Lotus crown ceremony)

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While His Holiness the 16th Karmapa (Rangjung Rigpa'i Dorje) was staying at Karma Gon, he preformed a divination and recognized an amazing child who was marked by the guardian Shang Jongma. Thus he discovered the unmistaken incarnation of the scholar-siddha Karma Chagme, and named him Karma Tenzin Trinley Kunkhyab Pal Zangpo.

http://www.neydo.org/?key=1&pos=1&act=pagesbiograph
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

His Eminence the 9th Drikung Chagme Rinpoche

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The previous (8th) Drikung Chagme was responsible for administering the test of objects to verify that little Könchog Gyaltsen was the authentic 8th Garchen Rinpoche, unmistaken reincarnation of Gar Trinley Yongkhyab. As a way of returning the favor, without any notice, His Eminence Garchen Rinpoche showed up at the 9th Chagme Rinpoche's home and gave him refuge and empowerments. At the time, this was before Chagme Rinpoche had even been recognized. When he was twelve, he was officially recognized and enthroned by His Holiness Kyabgön Chetsang Rinpoche as the ninth Drikung Kagyu incarnation of Karma Chagme.

http://www.dharma-media.org/ratnashripj ... hagme.html
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by heart »

Karma Jinpa wrote:
Chagme Rinpoche is of primary importance to me, personally, as I hold all three lineages which he and his tulku lines have been involved in. I suspect getting info about him and what he accomplished out there would benefit countless beings.
You are a lineage holder?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

A good side-by-side of the two Chagme tulkus:

Image Image


:bow:
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Hold the lineage of blessings, maybe; certainly not the lineage of realization... yet. :broke:

I meant more in the sense of "I practice" or "consider myself a part of" those lineages, not a :quoteunquote: "lineage holder" in the sense of a master who passes it on.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Karma Sherab »

Hi Karma Jinpa

I hope I am not making a mistake here, but I know Chagme Rinpoche quite well and have (through the Dakinis kindness) received teachings and empowerments from him.

He was always very kind and whatever time of day I would come he would be reciting mantras. One of the most exemplary Lamas I have ever had the good fortune to meet.

When I knew him he was living at Bouda and the last time I have seen him was in 1987.

He lives very quietly in Orissa and Kathmandu.
One kind word can warm three winter months
Japanese Proverb
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by heart »

Karma Jinpa wrote:Hold the lineage of blessings, maybe; certainly not the lineage of realization... yet. :broke:

I meant more in the sense of "I practice" or "consider myself a part of" those lineages, not a :quoteunquote: "lineage holder" in the sense of a master who passes it on.
Ah! :smile:
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by philji »

I believe the Dentok Chikma , Machig guru yoga/Chod, originated with Karma Chagme
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Malcolm »

philji wrote:I believe the Dentok Chikma , Machig guru yoga/Chod, originated with Karma Chagme

No, he just wrote a version based on earlier texts. Dentok Chigma is a term, not a title.
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

"What I have presented here is very short and I am telling it to you as I remember it, so it is not in a very orderly form. Those who are interested in a more orderly, precise text should read the biography I have written at the request of my teacher, Lord Mingyur Dorjé. Because these subjects are so precise, there is a chance that readers might develop wrong views that will cause them harm. For this reason I request that my biography be read only by those who have the empowerment and the lung."

~ pp. 14-15, Namthar, from Karma Chakme's Mountain Dharma, Volume 1
Does anyone know where to find said text? And do we know which empowerment and reading transmission Chagme Rinpoche is referring to? Has anyone gotten them, or does anyone know who would be likely to give them?

For that matter, has anyone gotten the lung for the entire Richö, or sections of it? :reading:
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by conebeckham »

I believe that the RiCho has been given by Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, in full, at Woodstock....but I think certain sections of the text were either not included in the public work, or are available only based on authorization. But I don't know the details.

Many texts have been extracted from it, for the purposes of various Dharma practices, though...as one example, there is a "Mahakala Prayer for the Dead" from Karma Chagme's Richo which is in use at Kalu Rinpoche's centers, during the Losar Mahakala puja. It can be done daily, as well.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Cone, do you happen to have links to any of the texts excerpted from the Richö, or have any of them in PDF format? The Mahakala Prayer for the Dead is of particular interest to me as an aspiring chaplain. I know Chagme Rinpoche also was quite done of Amitabha, especially the Namchö version (and of course his own Sukhavati Prayer).

Still curious about what wang & lung is being referred to, and where that longer bio is located...
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Does anyone know of a guru yoga text or gurusadhana composed by or for Karma Chagme? I would be greatly appreciative for any and all information related to this. Would the guru yoga portion of the Namchö ngondro suffice, if nothing else?

Sadly, the 7th Neydo Chagme Rinpoche passed away today... More here:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14182
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Losal Samten »

Does the Mountain Dharma by Khenpo Kathar Rinpoche include the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen? If so, how does KKR's commentary (and the translation) compare to the commentary and translation in Gyatrul Rinpoche's and Alan Wallace's books on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen, Naked Awareness and Spacious Path?
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Jinzang »

Mother's Lap wrote:Does the Mountain Dharma by Khenpo Kathar Rinpoche include the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen?
No, they are different texts and the subject matter is different. Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche has also given a commentary on the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogche`n, but it has never been published, probably because it is not suitable for a general audience.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!" Dottie Primrose
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Losal Samten »

Cheers mate!
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Dhondrub »

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Bumping this thread. I will be writing the bio on Karma Chagme Raga Asye for the website Treasury of Lives, so I'd appreciate any help I can get finding biographical sources. I already know of a few in English, but would love to have more if there are any that have escaped me.

Here's what I've got thus far:
  • Karma Chakme's Mountain Dharma, vol. 1
  • A Garland of Immortal Wish-Fulfilling Trees: The Palyul Tradition of Nyingmapa
  • History of the Karmapas: The Odyssey of the Tibetan Masters with the Black Crown
  • The All Pervading Melodious Sound of Thunder: the Outer Liberation Story of Terton Migyur Dorje
If anyone knows of Tibetan language bios, would they kindly point these out to me? I have full access to BDRC if that helps. Would anyone be willing to help translate these in exchange for co-credit on the ToL article?
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
TejaForest
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Karma Chagme & Neydo Kagyu

Post by TejaForest »

Great to hear HE Karma Chagme mentioned here. In fact, I registered just now because of this post. I took refuge with him about 10 years ago in Nepal, as I was living and volunteering at his monastery. I was only 20 years old then, and was very fortunate to dive into intensive practice whenever I could when I wasn't with the little monks.
What to say about him? Hmmm... Well, he was a known healer. He helped at least two people who were paralyzed be able to walk. That is one way he was very much celebrated. For myself, just being in his presence was a gift, and I learned so much. For this I am very grateful, and sad that he has passed away several years ago now.

I have a question for the community. After practicing with him quite intensely, I had to leave Nepal, and return to life in the US. Where I then lived in N California, I practiced with the closest teachers in the area who were Zen and Insight teachers. This simplicity of practice helped me a lot, and I focused on these practices while still retaining connection to the Vajrayana in my heart. I even spent some time as a theravadin monk, spent solo time living in a forest, and did a lot of focused practice. The recent three years, however, I have been focusing on grounding/integrating all of this into service/right livlihood in studying how to work with trauma and the nervous system. Now, I am longing to be connected once again to the vajrayana, but feel a bit of a void without being able to go back there and continue where I left off. I don't regret anything, because taking a hinayana focus has helped me better understand vajrayana practice, but I am feeling a bit confused about my next steps. When I listen to my heart, and it's connectivity, I feel connection with the Drikung Kagyu, but they seem to be based in the US, (will likely be back there next year, but in UK for now) and I feel silly asking to be a student from so far away, and a bit like an enigma. Coming to a "new" tradition, while also having a lot of practice experience is a bit strange in a way. Yet, I do feel humble enough to be "new" again if that is what's needed. I do feel a sense of lineage alive with me every day, and I have a daily sadhana and guru yoga practice. I welcome any reflections or advice with this matter...
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