Dharma Fellowship

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Malcolm
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Malcolm » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:59 pm

This is bold:
For centuries this simple and direct mode of meditation has been taught within the formal context of traditional Buddhism. Natural Mind Meditation is also known as Mahamudra or Dzogchen. Certain forms of Chinese Ch'an or Japanese Zen are the same as Natural Mind Meditation.
http://www.naturalmindmeditation.com/school

At this point, there is also no direct link to Connie Mitchell's profile anywhere in the site. No direct link to Devenish either. You have to dig a bit through past http://www.naturalmindmeditation.com/who-we-are.

Seems very new agey, all this talk of octaves,

BTW, you can the first three octaves today for the low, low, price $999 (Canadian I hope).

Has the best marketing for westerners too, "A Natural Mind Meditation teacher doesn't just decide to teach. She or he is "installed" to teach," the promise of a career path always works for westerners.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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tiagolps
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by tiagolps » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:03 pm

Malcolm wrote:This is bold:
For centuries this simple and direct mode of meditation has been taught within the formal context of traditional Buddhism. Natural Mind Meditation is also known as Mahamudra or Dzogchen. Certain forms of Chinese Ch'an or Japanese Zen are the same as Natural Mind Meditation.
http://www.naturalmindmeditation.com/school

At this point, there is also no direct link to Connie Mitchell's profile anywhere in the site. No direct link to Devenish either.
hum :roll:
Nevertheless, it has been our ambition to extract, repackage and present the essence of these precious teachings in a manner completely free of religious belief or dogma. The religiously unaffiliated and affiliated, alike, benefit equally from this curriculum.
Malcolm wrote:BTW, you can the first three octaves today for the low, low, price $999 (Canadian I hope).
Thats about 850 € : D
Last edited by tiagolps on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Homage to you, blissful, virtuous and peaceful,
Enjoy the domain of the tranquil nirvana.
Fully possessing the om and the soha,
You overcome even the greatest of evils.

_______________________________________________
"Buddhahood really is like an infection and it goes from one person to another. You can fight it off, but it's a pity if you do that..."
-Rigdzin Shikpo

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Malcolm
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Malcolm » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:07 pm

tiagolps wrote:
Malcolm wrote:This is bold:
For centuries this simple and direct mode of meditation has been taught within the formal context of traditional Buddhism. Natural Mind Meditation is also known as Mahamudra or Dzogchen. Certain forms of Chinese Ch'an or Japanese Zen are the same as Natural Mind Meditation.
http://www.naturalmindmeditation.com/school

At this point, there is also no direct link to Connie Mitchell's profile anywhere in the site. No direct link to Devenish either.
hum :roll:
Nevertheless, it has been our ambition to extract, repackage and present the essence of these precious teachings in a manner completely free of religious belief or dogma. The religiously unaffiliated and affiliated, alike, benefit equally from this curriculum.
Yup, new age bullshit.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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tiagolps
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by tiagolps » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:23 pm

Refunds
Although we do everything we can to accommodate individual need, refunds are typically only issued up to 14 days prior to Octave start date.
Withdrawal from a Power Pack program refunded at the per-Octave rate.
There is a $49 cancellation fee charged for all refunds.
Oh how nice of them :tongue:
This centuries-old, step-by-step, approach is widely recognized as the pinnacle of meditative practice, because it goes directly to the source; "like shooting an arrow straight into the bullseye of the target."
" widely recognized " as in, nobody knows about it, and the bullseye being your wallet.
Homage to you, blissful, virtuous and peaceful,
Enjoy the domain of the tranquil nirvana.
Fully possessing the om and the soha,
You overcome even the greatest of evils.

_______________________________________________
"Buddhahood really is like an infection and it goes from one person to another. You can fight it off, but it's a pity if you do that..."
-Rigdzin Shikpo

XXIlluminatingVoid72
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:09 pm

I'd like to throw in my two cents as I have some experience with this organization, as it is easy for people to discount something in an age when many falsehoods are predicated.

I don't know Connie or the naturalmindmeditation school, so can't comment on that.

But the Dharma Fellowship in Canada is a retreat centre on a large piece of wilderness property on an Island in British Columbia. I went there a couple times for personal retreats, and after meeting the Lamas there, went back for some guided retreats. He was installed as a lama by Benchen Chime Rinpoche, given permission to teach by Kalu Rinpoche and Lama Gyaltsen, and was asked to open a Dharma centre by Khenchen Palden Sherab Rinpoche. He teaches Longchen Nyingtik, Chod, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, all of which he received required teachings and empowerments for. He is a very humble person with truly deep knowledge about the Dharma and staggeringly clear and comprehensive instruction. I know he did a 10 year retreat before receiving his Lama qualification on Hevajra, 6 dharmas of Naropa and mahamudra, so has done the practice work.

In any case, because I have personal experience with this organization, I need to say what that is, so that speculations and face value judgements don't take precedent. Anyone wanting a great retreat space in a rural quiet area, lots of little personal huts, a beautiful yurt temple, this is an excellent space. They didn't charge me either, I just left a donation.

methar
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by methar » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:59 pm

Hello XXilluminatingVoid72

What about his claims of "TWO TULKU" recognition by both the 16th Karmapa and then by Namgyal Rinpoche.

Why did his number one follower Lama Connie remove all references to these claims when confronted by it?

She is listed as his successor to the Namgyal Rinpoche lineage upon his death.

What about all the claims you have listed below. Can you or anyone provide actual proof to back up these claims.

"He was installed as a lama by Benchen Chime Rinpoche, given permission to teach by Kalu Rinpoche and Lama Gyaltsen, and was asked to open a Dharma centre by Khenchen Palden Sherab Rinpoche."

You state that "you know" but can you prove it.

Have you asked Lama Rodney about all his claims and what actual documentary proof he has to back them up.

When you have and I hope you do please do inform us.

:namaste:

methar
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by methar » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:27 pm

Hello XXilluminatingVoid72

You stated,

" I know he did a 10 year retreat before receiving his Lama qualification on Hevajra, 6 dharmas of Naropa and mahamudra, so has done the practice work."

Where and when was this 10 year retreat?

Who gave him his "Lama qualification" on Hevajra, 6 dharmas of Naropa and mahamudra"?

Can you proved any documentary proof for what you stated "I know he did a 10 year retreat"?

:namaste:

XXIlluminatingVoid72
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:05 am

Hi methar,

I got some of that information from this website - https://thehermitage.ca/teachers, which is the website of the hermitage, regarding his teachers. To be honest, if someone truly needs that information, I would contact them personally here - https://thehermitage.ca/contact-us. Obviously, I do not have documents regarding his life or history. All I want to do is give an honest expression of my experience there, that they are a legitamate organization that teaches Dharma true to a lineage.

They have been visited by lineage holders in the Kagyu tradition such as the 17th Karmapa This is from the end of the 17th Karmapas written bio on the website-
"The Dharma Fellowship, a small group of western followers of the Kagyu teachings initially established by the 16th Karmapa, met with His Holiness the 17th Karmapa, and was formerly reconfirmed as an official "chös-sde" of the Kagyu lineage on April 18, 2000, having sole allegiance to His Holiness. The Gyalwa Karmapa is our spiritual head, our guide and root Lama, and we look to him as the ancient custodian of the Four Transmissions of Tilopa and the oral lineage of Mahamudra, which are the priceless esoteric teachings that form the basis of our spiritual practice.
The Dharma Fellowship is purely a practice centre, where we practice meditation, yogacara, and those special tantric exercises originally taught by the great saints and founders of the Kagyu brotherhood. We remain aloof from public teaching, scholastic studies and are entirely non-political. Even the internal administration or politics of the Kagyu Order has nothing to do with us at all. We simply follow the way of Buddhist Yoga, making homage to the Karmapa as our foremost guide, according to age old custom long pursued by yogis and yoginis in the Himalayas, in India, Burma, and in old Tibet."
It also says on the website that Bardok Chusang Rinpoche,Karma Gyurme Rinpoche are head lamas of the Dharma Fellowship and the abbot of the fellowship is Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche who oversees ordinations of monks and nuns.
"Some twenty or more years ago the Venerable Bardok Chusang Rinpoche placed into the hands of the western Tulku Kunzang Palden the woodblock text of the Ka'dro Nyingtig tradition of Chöd. This initiated a long odyssey not only to translate the text, but to discover a way to complete the practice in English without deviating from the pure, rich sounds of the Tibetan melody."
from here - http://www.dharmafellowship.org/biograp ... husang.htm. Bardok Chusang has given Rodney other woodblock texts to translate, such as Kunkhyen Pema Karpo's Mahamudra Manual, which Rodney published

This is the other website where this information was found. http://www.dharmafellowship.org/dharma-fellowship.htm . The Dharmafellowship has other centres in New York and San Fransisco, overseen by Bardok Chusang Rinpoche it says.

The retreat was done in isolation in the Canadian Rocky Mountains. I got this information from the biography section in his translation of Pema Karpo's text. It says "For a ten year period as a Buddhist monk, Lama Rodney spent his long winters in isolated meditation retreat in the snowy wilderness of the Canadian Rockies where he completed the Kagyu practices given to him by his teachers, with a particular focus on the Six Yogas of Narpo and Mahamudra".

Lama Kelsang Dorje, is also a teacher there, a Ngakpa Chod practitioner. He says of his bio the following
"“I come from a family lineage of Ngakpas (mystic yogis) that can be traced back to the time of Guru Padma Sambhava Rinpoche’s twenty five direct disciples. One of Padma Sambhava’s disciples, Langchen Pelkyi Sangye, was requested to come to my region of Tibet to help protect the area from negative forces. There he accomplished this feat and others. He settled in our area, Amdo, and gradually, from his family, the Tantric practice lineage was formed. More recently in this family lineage, there was Lang Gyalpo Rigzin Palden Tashi, a very renowned Lama in his time. He traveled to central Tibet and Kham and received countless teachings from many masters. Upon returning to Amdo, the Rekong Ngakpa Community (Rekong Ngakmang) was formed. To this day, this Ngakpa community exists and the practices of Kyirim, Dzogrim and Dzogchen remain in unbroken continuity. I am the seventh generation from him in this family Ngakpa lineage.”
So the Chod teaching there is in fact a very high one, straight from a Tibetan Ngakpa

Well there's some info and lots more to pick through, as well as many contacts and references, of which I am not. Like I said, he isn't my teacher, but I have been there multiple times, talked to people, experienced it, and received teachings, and can vouch that they are practicing Dharma founded in a lineage, are not simply after money (given that they didnt even charge me), and wouldn't want them to be disparaged if anyone was drawn to be taught by them. I can say that if you went there for teachings, you would receive the lineages have been handed down such as the Longchen nyingtig, Mahamudra, Chod, ect. As for satisfying the curiosity of onlookers, maybe I can't do that, but if you need to, I say contact them and ask. If you don't receive a reply, perhaps it's because there was no reason for one.

methar
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by methar » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:58 am

Hello XXilluminatingvoid72

I and others have sent emails to both Rodney and Connie.

You stated,

"As for satisfying the curiosity of onlookers, maybe I can't do that, but if you need to, I say contact them and ask. If you don't receive a reply, perhaps it's because there was no reason for one."

I and others have sent numerous emails to Rodney and Connie seeking answers about their many claims.

Their answer was total silence except for the deletion of all references to Rodney being an officially recognized "Tulku" on Lama Connie's website.

That act of deletion answered all my questions about the two of them.

Rodney, Connie and you have absolutely no proof just your claims and claims are not proof.

:namaste:

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Lingpupa
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Lingpupa » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:27 am

Some of the discussion above on this (second) page seems not to have been informed by what I reported at the end of the first page, namely this:

RD's claim to have been recognized by the 16th Karmapa as Kunzang Rinpoche was removed.

The claim about Namgyal recognizing him as the Kunpal Rinpoche tulku and holder of the Vijaya Lineage of the Kagyu School of Tibetan Buddhism was removed.

The references to Connie as a lama have been removed.

None of them have replied to my probing but perfectly polite inquiry to the quoted e-mail address.

These are things that do not suggest trustworthiness.

As to the new and as-yet unsubstantiated claim that "He was installed as a lama by Benchen Chime Rinpoche", this is verging on the bizarre. Benchen Chime Tulku never left Tibet, though he did spend some time away from Benchen during the worst years. Web sources say "at Siling", but I have no idea where that is. Nobody can tell me that Rodney was there at that time. As one of the first Westerners *ever* to visit Benchen officially*, his claim to have ever been there is, let me say, hard to swallow.

BTW it is Benchen Chime Rinpoche's remains that are said to be inside the stupa whose picture features on the right of the cover of my tedious old book (see signature), and see this:
Image

There is a pattern here of claims that evaporate when challenged. Rodney and Conney are not what lawyers might call "reliable witnesses. XXIlluminatingVoid72's positive statements notwithstanding, they appear to be chancers, probably just liars. If not, they have an awful lot to prove, and are not doing a very good job of it so far.

*Alexandra David-Neel was there, and I have a personal friend who got there in the late 80s or early 90s, but was chucked out by the Chinese.
All the best
Alex Wilding
"Kathmandu report" at http://alex-wilding.com/
Blog struggling for rebirth at http://chagchen.org/
Benchen and Back digital edition still on Amazon - see http://tinyurl.com/78rdcoy

XXIlluminatingVoid72
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:19 pm

From Benchen Chime's Wikipedia -
In 1965, Lama Chime was invited to live in the UK. He shared a small apartment with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Akong Rinpoche in Oxford.[8][9] He later gained British citizenship and has lived in Britain ever since.[7]
In other words the same place Rodney was living. The Wikipedia page you have linked in that website explains a very different biography than the one you seem to have imagined...

Given that you've never met them and don't know who they are, you are essentially criticizing just what you found on a website. Given also that you aren't looking for teachings by them, I am not surprised that they aren't overly concerned with satisfying the curiosity of an unknown person regarding intimate life history. I don't think they're overly concerned with someone on dharmawheel having skepticism, because frankly, it doesn't matter at all.

Connie's website looks like it is supposed to be a non-sectarian meditation school, so after having confused and freightened a poor westerner, it looks like she removed references to Tibetan Buddhism.

If you wanted, you could ask any of the lamas cited on the website. But I imagine one wouldn't because they would likely feel foolish being in the presence of a lama, and wanting to use that time to gossip about others. Or better said, the truth of your intentions would be much more clearly revealed to you at that time.
Last edited by XXIlluminatingVoid72 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pemachophel
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by pemachophel » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:39 pm

FYI, Siling is the Tibetan spelling for Xining, the capital of Qinghai Province. During the Cultural Revolution, many Lamas were imprisoned there in a concentration camp.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

methar
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by methar » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:32 pm

"Connie's website looks like it is supposed to be a non-sectarian meditation school, so after having confused and freightened a poor westerner, it looks like she removed references to Tibetan Buddhism."

Your scared Lama Connie is a "Black Belt" in Wado Kai Karate.

"If you wanted, you could ask any of the lamas cited on the website."

We don't need to "ask any of the lamas cited on the (Rodney's) website" anything.

We asked Rodney and his answer was SILENCE.

Interesting how you have never addressed the issue of Rodney's claims about be not one but TWO tulkus?

Things that make me go HUM.

:anjali:

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Lingpupa
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Lingpupa » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:01 pm

XXIlluminatingVoid72 wrote:From Benchen Chime's Wikipedia -
In 1965, Lama Chime was invited to live in the UK. He shared a small apartment with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Akong Rinpoche in Oxford.[8][9] He later gained British citizenship and has lived in Britain ever since.[7]
That is not Benchen Chime. It is talking about my own first teacher, aka the Radha Lama, who also came from Benchen, and is sometimes called "London Chime" to avoid confusion with "Benchen Chime". "Benchen Chime Rinpoche" is a different person - the previous one never left Tibet, the present incarnation lives in Benchen.
In other words the same place Rodney was living. The Wikipedia page you have linked in that website explains a very different biography than the one you seem to have imagined...
Because it is about a different person. You are probably thinking that Chime Rinpoche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chime_Rinpoche) is the same as Benchen Chime Rinpoche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chime_Tulku). If you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benchen_Monastery you will see, under the four tulkus, "Chime Tulku" who is also known as Benchen Chime Rinpoche (or Tulku), and Radha Tulku, aka Chime Rinpoche.

The mere possibility that Rodney was living in the same country as an authentic Lama from Benchen carries little weight.
Given that you've never met them and don't know who they are, you are essentially criticizing just what you found on a website.
Correct.
If you wanted, you could ask any of the lamas cited on the website.
You said that Rodney said that he was "installed as a lama by Benchen Chime Rinpoche". You need to be clear who the claim is about. That it would have been Benchen Chime is not believable, for reasons I outlined before. That it was the Radha Lama, from whose Wikipedia entry you quote, strikes me as unlikely, knowing him, but if you like I can indeed ask. Shall I?

And yes, I have inquired, but Rodney does not seem inclined to answer. (If anyone else here knows "London Chime" I would be interested to hear what they thought of the likelihood that he would have "installed" someone as a lama in whatever year it was supposed to be. Would that be the same year that he was previously claiming that the 16th Karmapa had recognized him?

Your claims are a muddle. You suggest that we could ask the people concerned, but now you suggest that we are too unimportant for them to bother about. The hole you are digging yourself into is getting bigger and bigger with every post.
All the best
Alex Wilding
"Kathmandu report" at http://alex-wilding.com/
Blog struggling for rebirth at http://chagchen.org/
Benchen and Back digital edition still on Amazon - see http://tinyurl.com/78rdcoy

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Malcolm
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:14 pm

Lingpupa wrote: Web sources say "at Siling", but I have no idea where that is.
Xining, in Qinghai Province. The Tibetan pronunciation is roughly Siling.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

XXIlluminatingVoid72
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:08 pm

Lingpupa wrote:The mere possibility that Rodney was living in the same country as an authentic Lama from Benchen carries little weight.


No, he was living with Chogyam Trungpa at that time according to his bio. As for this misunderstanding, we have one Chime who was living in the same house as him, and one who has never left Tibet, causing a great contradiction because he couldn't have known the one that never left Tibet, well this seems like the answer is obvious but I'll let you piece it together yourself :tongue:

You said that Rodney said that he was "installed as a lama by Benchen Chime Rinpoche". You need to be clear who the claim is about. That it would have been Benchen Chime is not believable, for reasons I outlined before. That it was the Radha Lama, from whose Wikipedia entry you quote, strikes me as unlikely, knowing him, but if you like I can indeed ask. Shall I?
Yes I would like you too ask. Please ask Radha Chime, the 17th Karmapa Urgyen Thinley Dudul Dorje, Venerable Bardok Chusang Rinpoche, the Venerable Karma Gyurme Rinpoche, which are the active lamas in Dharma Fellowship, and they should be able to answer every question you have.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by Lingpupa » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:22 pm

I have indeed asked, but there is not going to be a reply in the near future. I had known that Chime Rinpoche was going into retreat, but had hoped to get the question in beforehand. No such luck! He posted the following message yesterday:
21369116_721945507988883_4589091570595882952_n.jpg
21369116_721945507988883_4589091570595882952_n.jpg (30.8 KiB) Viewed 430 times
All the best
Alex Wilding
"Kathmandu report" at http://alex-wilding.com/
Blog struggling for rebirth at http://chagchen.org/
Benchen and Back digital edition still on Amazon - see http://tinyurl.com/78rdcoy

methar
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by methar » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:30 pm

Hello Lingpupa

It's a strange world we live in when we are told to go out and prove Lama Rod's and Lama Connie's claims.

XX...Void stated in his last post,
"
Yes I would like you too ask. Please ask Radha Chime, the 17th Karmapa Urgyen Thinley Dudul Dorje, Venerable Bardok Chusang Rinpoche, the Venerable Karma Gyurme Rinpoche, which are the active lamas in Dharma Fellowship, and they should be able to answer every question you have.
"
Should not the onus be on Lama Rod and Lama Connie to proof their claims.

We are not claiming that Lama Rod is a Tulku twice over, he and she are making that claim.

Many of us have contacted both of them and asked them to provide that proof.

Their combined answers were silence except for Lama Connie deleting all references of Lama Rodney's tulkuships from her website.

Their combined silence should be taken into the final consideration of the validity of their claims.

So I for one will not follow the advise of XX...Void and provide their claims

The onus is on the business to provide proof of their claims to the general public before we purchase their wares.

:namaste:

amanitamusc
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Re: Dharma Fellowship

Post by amanitamusc » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:08 pm

Many good questions asked but nobody knows if Connie will take bitcoins for octaves.

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