Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

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conebeckham
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Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:49 am

Just an FYI, saw that Elizabeth Callahan has translated this, along with Kongtrul's commentary, and it will be available as a restricted text in September from Shambhala. Website says you must have completed ngondro, have had pointing out instructions, and be practicing HYT yidam under the guidance of a qualified lama.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Malcolm » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:50 am

conebeckham wrote:Just an FYI, saw that Elizabeth Callahan has translated this, along with Kongtrul's commentary, and it will be available as a restricted text in September from Shambhala. Website says you must have completed ngondro, have had pointing out instructions, and be practicing HYT yidam under the guidance of a qualified lama.

You know, I just don't support this restricted text nonsense.
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conebeckham
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:56 am

Yes, I know.
I personally think anyone could read Zabmo Nangdon, but it'd be pretty nonsensical without some HYT empowerment and practice, personally.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:48 am

The restrictions are also strange in light of the fact that it was taught to several hundred Tibetan medical students by the Repgong Ngagpa Damdrin Jel (རྟ་མགྲིན་རྒྱལ) over the course of 2012-2013. I stay in touch with several of the students who attended this and I know from our conversations that at the time, not all of the students had received a HYT empowerment, and several did not complete, or even begin, a ngöndro. I imagine that at least the ngöndro part was the general trend, but I am only going by those I know for certain.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Tom » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:42 am

conebeckham wrote:Just an FYI, saw that Elizabeth Callahan has translated this, along with Kongtrul's commentary, and it will be available as a restricted text in September from Shambhala. Website says you must have completed ngondro, have had pointing out instructions, and be practicing HYT yidam under the guidance of a qualified lama.
This is great news.I actually support the publishing of certain books with restrictions since I think it encourages people to get instruction from lineage masters. But, I guess soon It will be a pdf on the internet and people will be quoting from it on dharmawheel!

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conebeckham
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:22 pm

I can see both sides of the issue, personally.
Recently we had a thread about eating feces as Mahamudra practice. Lifted from Wiki.
People can get a lot of funny ideas by reading material without proper explanation and instruction....

I read Tibetan, though sadhanas are easier than texts such as the Zabmo Nangdon or Kongtrul's commentary. But I've been working through the commentary bit by bit, sporadically, for some time now. Happy to see it translated by a skilled translator. As for "elitism," well.....if the only people with free access to the texts are Tibetan readers, isn't that a form of elitism, as well?

I don't know what the price will be--I suppose it won't be much higher than a normal Hardcover at Shambhala--$40-ish?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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conebeckham
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:15 pm

It's not Shambhala who determines restrictions, but the translators or their teachers. In this case, it was the wish of Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso that certain requirements be met.

I think in all cases, it's not the publisher laying down the rules. Take a look at the Yeshe Lama, and the Guhyagarbha...etc.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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smcj
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by smcj » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:46 pm

BTW, what's a "Zambo Nangdon"?
In the Tantra of the Beautiful Auspiciousness (bKra shis mdzes ldan gyi rgyud), this "Great Primordial Purity" (spyi gzhi) is defined as follows:

What is known as "The Great Primordial Purity”
Is the state abiding before authentic Buddhas arose
And before impure sentient beings appeared;
It is called the great Primordial radiance of immutable awareness.

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Sometimes you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places
If you look at it right.
-Robert Hunter-

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:19 pm

"Zabmo Nangdon" means something like "The Profound Inner Meaning."
It's a text written by the 3rd Karmapa, Rangjung Dorje, and it lays out the underpinnings of the Vajrayana view, according to the Karma Kagyu.
It's one of three major texts that is studied to learn about the basis and details of tantric practice, especially by Shedra students. The other two are the "Two Chapter Tantra" (Hevajra Tantra) and the Uttaratantrashastra/Ratnagotravibhaga of Maitreya.

The commentary by Kongtrul Lodro Taye is studied in tandem with the Karmapa's root text.

In the Zabmo Nangdon you will find information about the body and it's relationship to the environment. There's a lot of astrology, as well as the "subtle body" information relating to the Channels, Winds, and Drops. Also, a lot of discussion about Buddhanature as basis, on the path, and as result.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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ratna
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by ratna » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:00 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:The restrictions are also strange in light of the fact that it was taught to several hundred Tibetan medical students by the Repgong Ngagpa Damdrin Jel (རྟ་མགྲིན་རྒྱལ) over the course of 2012-2013. I stay in touch with several of the students who attended this and I know from our conversations that at the time, not all of the students had received a HYT empowerment, and several did not complete, or even begin, a ngöndro. I imagine that at least the ngöndro part was the general trend, but I am only going by those I know for certain.
Interesting. So the Zabmo Nangdon is part of the medical curriculum nowadays?

I once picked up an interesting modern commentary (by Thubten Phuntsok) on ZND from the medical perspective at a Lhasa bookstore -- it has illustrations correlating the channels and chakras to physical organs, complete with Latin names and everything.

R

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by mañjughoṣamaṇi » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:24 am

Hi Ratna,

It is not part of the 'core curriculum' at Qīnghǎi university that I (and Malcolm and others in the two SSI groups that have gone over) studied at, but it was drawn on by different doctors to illuminate anatomy and other topics. The teaching I mentioned was arranged outside of the ordinary curriculum, but was open to all who were interested. There are a number of extracurricular teachings like this planned with the doctors and medical students in mind even if they can't make up part of the official curriculum at the university.

All the best.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra

"The bottom always falls out of the quest for the elementary. The irreducibly individual recedes like the horizon, as our analysis advances." -- Genesis, Michel Serres

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by ratna » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:18 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote: It is not part of the 'core curriculum' at Qīnghǎi university that I (and Malcolm and others in the two SSI groups that have gone over) studied at, but it was drawn on by different doctors to illuminate anatomy and other topics. The teaching I mentioned was arranged outside of the ordinary curriculum, but was open to all who were interested. There are a number of extracurricular teachings like this planned with the doctors and medical students in mind even if they can't make up part of the official curriculum at the university.
Very cool.

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Lobsang Damchoi » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:31 am

Thanks all for the interesting thread.

I hesitate to get into issues that bear on advanced teachings in lineages that I'm less familiar with, but ... :coffee:

Folks should understand that completion of the 100,000 repetitions of the ngondro (preliminary practices) is not viewed as a necessary "prerequisite" to Vajrayana practice in the Gelug system. The Gelupas dont minimize the importance of ngondro--the emphasis is different. They dont feel that one need wait to complete all the ngondro before taking an anuttarayoga tantra empowerment if all other desirable conditions are present.

Also the concept that one needs to have done the prelims 100,000 times before practicing tantra is a fairly new as a "rule" (as opposed to a desideratum).

So in a sense the restrictions for this publication adversely impact those of us who mainly practice Gelug lamas.
Lobsang Damchoi

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by sherabpa » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:20 am

Lobsang Damchoi wrote:Thanks all for the interesting thread.
So in a sense the restrictions for this publication adversely impact those of us who mainly practice Gelug lamas.
If your practice is mainly Gelug, why would you want to read Zabmo Nangdon? I can see a legitimate academic or polemical reason for wanting to read it, but in such cases you would not care about the restrictions imposed by lamas. So how could you be adversely affected.

But if you want to really practice based on the texts, some restrictions make complete sense. Otherwise anyone could read and practice anything they please, and then what is the point of the guru?

To say restrictions are absurd because a text is already available in the public domain seems mistaken. This is like saying tantric secrets don't have to be kept anymore since one can read about them on the internet. If someone else reveals a secret, you are still exacerbating the problem if you also go and reveal it. Moreover, since you promised not to do so at the time of empowerment, you are breaking your samaya.

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by aussiebloke » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:27 am

conebeckham wrote:Just an FYI, saw that Elizabeth Callahan has translated this, along with Kongtrul's commentary, and it will be available as a restricted text in September from Shambhala. Website says you must have completed ngondro, have had pointing out instructions, and be practicing HYT yidam under the guidance of a qualified lama.
Well , whatever the issues may be surrounding this, I'm buying it

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Anders » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:09 am

Osho wrote:
conebeckham wrote:Just an FYI, saw that Elizabeth Callahan has translated this, along with Kongtrul's commentary, and it will be available as a restricted text in September from Shambhala. Website says you must have completed ngondro, have had pointing out instructions, and be practicing HYT yidam under the guidance of a qualified lama.
Pathetic.
Truly pathetic.
Presumably the book will be lodged in copyright libraries as per statute?
Maybe we should start by appreciating that it's actually being done, before bemoaning who it is made available for?

I believe this is still a good thing that will bring more benefit than if it hadn't been undertaken.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:12 am

Off topic posts moved here.

The topic of the discussion is the text Zabmo Nangdon.

Please stay on topic.

Thank you.
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by conebeckham » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:19 pm

$49.95, by the way....not "a hundred dollars." 624 pages. Free shipping for orders over $35.......
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Norwegian
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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by Norwegian » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:37 pm

I think people are mostly referring to their Guhyagarbha trilogy, which costs $340 total. That doesn't include shipping, because as far as I know, shipping is only free for orders over $35 within the US. Outside of the US it's a different story.

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Re: Zabmo Nangdon to be published by Shambhala

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:22 pm

Norwegian wrote:I think people are mostly referring to their Guhyagarbha trilogy, which costs $340 total.
BTW, not only do you need to have received the empowerment to buy or read these books, you must also have received the reading transmission, which apparently takes 3 days:
http://www.berotsana.org/GG-tantra
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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