Karma Nyingtik

aussiebloke
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Karma Nyingtik

Post by aussiebloke » Tue May 31, 2016 11:09 pm

Hello all
Do any of you yogis practice this cycle of teachings ?
Can you PM me if you do.
Many thanks
John

Malcolm
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Malcolm » Tue May 31, 2016 11:26 pm

aussiebloke wrote:Hello all
Do any of you yogis practice this cycle of teachings ?
Can you PM me if you do.
Many thanks
John

It is basically just a Vimalamitra Guru yoga, a supplement to the Vima Nyinthig.

aussiebloke
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by aussiebloke » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:07 am

Thanks Malcolm
Do you have any idea where this text would be in the tbrc ?
I was under the impression that this was a much larger cycle.
John

seraphim
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by seraphim » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:14 am

There seems to be a 3 Roots in one practice using the following deity also.
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dzoki
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by dzoki » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:27 am

aussiebloke wrote:Thanks Malcolm
Do you have any idea where this text would be in the tbrc ?
I was under the impression that this was a much larger cycle.
John
Some time ago I had the same question, so I asked tbrc staff (Gene was still alive) and Gene said that the texts of this cycle are in quite a disarray and it is difficult to trace them, some of them are in possession of various Kamtsang masters, but at that time there was no complete collection that he was aware of. So I guess that it is probably same way to this date. It would certainly be worthwhile for some dharma donor to sponsor a collection and publication of Karma Nyingthig along with its transmission to the suitable practitioners, who would do a retreat of this practice so as to revive it.
Edit:Now I remebered one more thing, recently there was a publication of sungbum (collected works) of all previous 16 Karmapas in China, so maybe they also took effort to collect Karma Nyingthig texts for 3rd Karmapa´s works.

aussiebloke
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by aussiebloke » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:13 pm

Thanks for that.
I have been told by a Karma Kagyu Rinpoche that there are a number of practices in this cycle.
Maybe in a few months I'll know a lot more if I am able to receive some of these from him ( mind you , this has been an unfulfilled aspiration for over thirty years thus far )

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Grigoris
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:32 pm

aussiebloke wrote:...mind you , this has been an unfulfilled aspiration for over thirty years thus far
There are other practices you can do in the meantime in order to hurry things along. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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conebeckham
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by conebeckham » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:03 pm

seraphim wrote:There seems to be a 3 Roots in one practice using the following deity also.
That's TsaSum Drildrup. It's not part of Karma Nyingthig.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

seraphim
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by seraphim » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:04 pm

conebeckham wrote:
seraphim wrote:There seems to be a 3 Roots in one practice using the following deity also.
That's TsaSum Drildrup. It's not part of Karma Nyingthig.
Hmmm....thanks for pointing this out. It is a terma of 3rd Karmapa is it?

aussiebloke
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by aussiebloke » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:02 pm

There's no mention of Tsasum Dilrup being Nyingtik, but I intend to follow it up.

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conebeckham
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by conebeckham » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:14 pm

Yes, TsaSum DrilDrup is a terma of Karmapa Rangjung Dorje. It's been "revived" recently; HH Orgyen Tinley Dorje requested that HE Tai Situ Rinpoche complete a Nyendrup and then give the wang to an assembly of Lamas and monks, for purposes of practicing for the longevity of HH The Dalai Lama.

There's at least one other TsaSum Drildrup practice (Likely there are more!)--the one most popular is a Yangter of Khyentse Rinpoche's, and it centers on a form of Guru Rinpoche. But this terma of Rangjung Dorje encompasses the Lama (Amitayus), the Yidam (Chenrezig), and the Protector (Mahakala) combined in one. It is found, it seems, in the Rinchen Terdzo.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

seraphim
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by seraphim » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:31 am

conebeckham wrote:Yes, TsaSum DrilDrup is a terma of Karmapa Rangjung Dorje. It's been "revived" recently; HH Orgyen Tinley Dorje requested that HE Tai Situ Rinpoche complete a Nyendrup and then give the wang to an assembly of Lamas and monks, for purposes of practicing for the longevity of HH The Dalai Lama.

There's at least one other TsaSum Drildrup practice (Likely there are more!)--the one most popular is a Yangter of Khyentse Rinpoche's, and it centers on a form of Guru Rinpoche. But this terma of Rangjung Dorje encompasses the Lama (Amitayus), the Yidam (Chenrezig), and the Protector (Mahakala) combined in one. It is found, it seems, in the Rinchen Terdzo.
Thank you Cone, as always. :anjali:

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conebeckham
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by conebeckham » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:35 am

You're welcome!
It's found near the beginning of the Rinchen Terdzo, in the section on combined three roots, which comes before the guru section.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

aussiebloke
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by aussiebloke » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:30 am

There is a Tsasum Dilrup that has been given many times by Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche , I seem to remember it being a rediscovered terma of Khyentse Wangpo originally from Sangye Lingpa , the first terton.

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conebeckham
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by conebeckham » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:34 pm

Yes, Sangye Lingpa's Ter is right before Karmapa's in the collection, I think. There are a few others I saw when I looked, but I didn't get into the details....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Malcolm
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:49 pm

aussiebloke wrote:There is a Tsasum Dilrup that has been given many times by Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche , I seem to remember it being a rediscovered terma of Khyentse Wangpo originally from Sangye Lingpa , the first terton.
That is Sangye Lama, not Sangye Lingpa, and his claim to being the "first" terton (1000-1080 is a little arguable, since he had a younger contemporary, Trapa Ngonshe (1010-1090), who was also a terton.

Amazingly, Zhangton Tashi Dorje is always over looked in the lists of tertons, because for some strange reason, the Vima Nyinthig is never considered terma, though it is in fact.

Iconodule
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Iconodule » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:16 pm

Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?
Enter eagerly into the treasure house that lies within you, and so you will see the treasure house of heaven. For the two are the same, and there is but on single entry to them both. The ladder that leads to the Kingdom is hidden within you, and is found in your soul. Dive into yourself, and in your soul you will discover the rungs by which you are to ascend. - Saint Isaac of Syria

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:40 pm

Iconodule wrote:Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?
Apparently the whole universe is a terma, so the first terton would be ... Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Malcolm
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:58 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Iconodule wrote:Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?
Apparently the whole universe is a terma, so the first terton would be ... Image

Guru Chowang in fact does make that identification.

Malcolm
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Re: Karma Nyingtik

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:59 pm

Iconodule wrote:Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?

Well, this in an interesting point. I think we can say Sangye Lama was among the first tertons working with Guru Padsmabhava material, for sure. Most people consider termas to be teachings concealed by either Guru Rinpoche or the 25 disciples. For example, technically speaking, the Barchey Kunsel cycle was not concealed by Guru P, but rather by those disciples who heard that teaching.

Or, with Gongpa Zangthal, the cave of Zang Zag Lha drag was a place where people such as Padmasambhava, Mutig Tsenpo, Yeshe Tsogyal and so on would visit and conceal this and that teaching in five chambered casket taken out by Rigzin Godem.
Last edited by Malcolm on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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