Whispers on the wind...
Whispers on the wind...
Has anyone else caught the whispers on the wind that HH Karmapa Thaye Dorje has found Shamar Rinpoche? Or are the whispers as I suppose them to be, merely understandable over eagerness?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
former Shamarpa were usually reborn one or two years after the death of its predecessor but diamondway say:
it would be very interesting what happens when the Dalai Lama or Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje or the Chinese government will find her own 15th Sharmapa
http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/17th ... -rinpoche/The announcement on the 17th Karmapa’s website says that as part of his preparation to find the next Shamarpa, Karmapa will spend up to six months on retreat, each year for the next three years. A ‘Prayer for the Swift Rebirth of Shamar Rinpoche’ has also been posted on www.karmapa.org.
it would be very interesting what happens when the Dalai Lama or Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje or the Chinese government will find her own 15th Sharmapa
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Re: Whispers on the wind...
Seems very soon but who knows. I don't think the Dalai Lama or the PRC Govt will look for Shamar R somehow. Ogyen Trinley conducted prayers on Shamarpa 's passing and instructed his monasteries to do so too. I hope wherever he is born and whoever does or does not recognise him, that it does not become another means to promote disharmony among Karma Kagyu adherents. We have more that binds than separates us.crazy-man wrote:former Shamarpa were usually reborn one or two years after the death of its predecessor but diamondway say:
http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/17th ... -rinpoche/The announcement on the 17th Karmapa’s website says that as part of his preparation to find the next Shamarpa, Karmapa will spend up to six months on retreat, each year for the next three years. A ‘Prayer for the Swift Rebirth of Shamar Rinpoche’ has also been posted on http://www.karmapa.org.
it would be very interesting what happens when the Dalai Lama or Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje or the Chinese government will find her own 15th Sharmapa
This is not the wrong life.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
I agree that we have more that binds than separates. I can't see any reason why the Chinese Govt won't stick their beaks in though. They already have their preferred Karmapa.Knotty Veneer wrote:Seems very soon but who knows. I don't think the Dalai Lama or the PRC Govt will look for Shamar R somehow. Ogyen Trinley conducted prayers on Shamarpa 's passing and instructed his monasteries to do so too. I hope wherever he is born and whoever does or does not recognise him, that it does not become another means to promote disharmony among Karma Kagyu adherents. We have more that binds than separates us.crazy-man wrote:former Shamarpa were usually reborn one or two years after the death of its predecessor but diamondway say:
http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/17th ... -rinpoche/The announcement on the 17th Karmapa’s website says that as part of his preparation to find the next Shamarpa, Karmapa will spend up to six months on retreat, each year for the next three years. A ‘Prayer for the Swift Rebirth of Shamar Rinpoche’ has also been posted on http://www.karmapa.org.
it would be very interesting what happens when the Dalai Lama or Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje or the Chinese government will find her own 15th Sharmapa
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Every single Kagyupa has their preferred Karmapa!Simon E. wrote:I agree that we have more that binds than separates. I can't see any reason why the Chinese Govt won't stick their beaks in though. They already have their preferred Karmapa.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Whispers on the wind...
And yet you can't help yourself passive-aggressively trying to point score, Simon. Let it go, eh.Simon E. wrote: I agree that we have more that binds than separates. I can't see any reason why the Chinese Govt won't stick their beaks in though. They already have their preferred Karmapa.
This is not the wrong life.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
That's projection Knotty-Veener. There was no 'point scoring' involved until you read it into it.Knotty Veneer wrote:And yet you can't help yourself passive-aggressively trying to point score, Simon. Let it go, eh.Simon E. wrote: I agree that we have more that binds than separates. I can't see any reason why the Chinese Govt won't stick their beaks in though. They already have their preferred Karmapa.
I was pointing out that the Chinese Govt are up to their armpits in this situation already, so I see no reason for them to hold back now. Their backing one of the serious candidates does not in itself invalidate the claims being made for him.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Simon E. wrote:Has anyone else caught the whispers on the wind that HH Karmapa Thaye Dorje has found Shamar Rinpoche? Or are the whispers as I suppose them to be, merely understandable over eagerness?
Anyhoo, going back to the O.P. it seems that the whispers might be premature then...
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
I'm staking my money on Karmapa Dawa Sangpo Dorje, I tend to back early birds...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 pm
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Although the PRC did agree to offically recognise him when he was originally enthroned, it really cannot and should not be said that Ogyen Trinley is "supported" or "backed" by the PRC Govt. Supporters of the late Shamar Rinpoche continue to repeat this lie in attempt to cast him as a traitor and so undermine his candidacy. Your statement is not a bare statement of fact. It is disingenuous.Simon E. wrote:That's projection Knotty-Veener. There was no 'point scoring' involved until you read it into it.Knotty Veneer wrote:And yet you can't help yourself passive-aggressively trying to point score, Simon. Let it go, eh.Simon E. wrote: I agree that we have more that binds than separates. I can't see any reason why the Chinese Govt won't stick their beaks in though. They already have their preferred Karmapa.
I was pointing out that the Chinese Govt are up to their armpits in this situation already, so I see no reason for them to hold back now. Their backing one of the serious candidates does not in itself invalidate the claims being made for him.
This is not the wrong life.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
In Greece we say: it ain't shit, it's manure. In Australia we say: half a dozen of one, six of the other.Knotty Veneer wrote:Although the PRC did agree to offically recognise him when he was originally enthroned, it really cannot and should not be said that Ogyen Trinley is "supported" or "backed" by the PRC Govt. Supporters of the late Shamar Rinpoche continue to repeat this lie in attempt to cast him as a traitor and so undermine his candidacy. Your statement is not a bare statement of fact. It is disingenuous.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Whispers on the wind...
The PRC recognised him when he had his enthronement ceremony.
OK let's just leave it there with that simple and uncontested statement.
But you have dragged controversy into a thread which in itself offered none.
It's almost as though you wanted to get the thread closed.
I simply responded to your opinion that the PRC govt are unlikely to get involved. I had at that point not even discussed that aspect of the issue.
I will leave it to others to decide what occurred in this thread.
OK let's just leave it there with that simple and uncontested statement.
But you have dragged controversy into a thread which in itself offered none.
It's almost as though you wanted to get the thread closed.
I simply responded to your opinion that the PRC govt are unlikely to get involved. I had at that point not even discussed that aspect of the issue.
I will leave it to others to decide what occurred in this thread.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Here is the OP. No need for any controversy. Just yes or no. Others had or they hadn't.Simon E. wrote:Has anyone else caught the whispers on the wind that HH Karmapa Thaye Dorje has found Shamar Rinpoche? Or are the whispers as I suppose them to be, merely understandable over eagerness?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Realistically though, it all boils down to our own misguided (or enlightened) perception.
A friend of mine swears black and blue that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real deal. As a consequence of this she received personal practice advice from him and went on to complete over a million repetitions of the 21 Tara praises AND over a million Green Tara mantra for the benefit of all sentient beings.
So what are you going to do? Tell her that she's made the wrong choice? I dare you to!
A friend of mine swears black and blue that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real deal. As a consequence of this she received personal practice advice from him and went on to complete over a million repetitions of the 21 Tara praises AND over a million Green Tara mantra for the benefit of all sentient beings.
So what are you going to do? Tell her that she's made the wrong choice? I dare you to!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Whispers on the wind...
NO, I would not. And I wouldn't even if she had been inspired to do that by the other guy.Sherab Dorje wrote:Realistically though, it all boils down to our own misguided (or enlightened) perception.
A friend of mine swears black and blue that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real deal. As a consequence of this she received personal practice advice from him and went on to complete over a million repetitions of the 21 Tara praises AND over a million Green Tara mantra for the benefit of all sentient beings.
So what are you going to do? Tell her that she's made the wrong choice? I dare you to!
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
I know you wouldn't Simon E, I was talking to Knotty Veneer.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 pm
Re: Whispers on the wind...
I wouldn't either. Why would I? The are many teachers out there who inspire great devotion and good works in their students with and without titles.Sherab Dorje wrote:I know you wouldn't Simon E, I was talking to Knotty Veneer.
This is not the wrong life.
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Well that is nice to know!Knotty Veneer wrote:I wouldn't either. Why would I? The are many teachers out there who inspire great devotion and good works in their students with and without titles.Sherab Dorje wrote:I know you wouldn't Simon E, I was talking to Knotty Veneer.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Whispers on the wind...
When taking instructions from a master one should not really care about if he/she is this or that tulku but instead care about if he/she is a qualified master or not. If he/she have the lineage and the instructions. If it is a qualified master the tulku title is pretty uninteresting for your friends Tara practice. Also, your friend certainly isn't qualified to recognize who is or isn't a tulku, this is normally left to the senior lamas of the lineage.Sherab Dorje wrote:Realistically though, it all boils down to our own misguided (or enlightened) perception.
A friend of mine swears black and blue that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the real deal. As a consequence of this she received personal practice advice from him and went on to complete over a million repetitions of the 21 Tara praises AND over a million Green Tara mantra for the benefit of all sentient beings.
So what are you going to do? Tell her that she's made the wrong choice? I dare you to!
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Whispers on the wind...
Magnus, Greg didn't say that her practice would not have happened without her accepting her teacher's recognition. She was not proclaiming his tulkudom. She was saying that his recognition by others and her direct contact with HH had inspired her.
Surely it must be possible to discuss these matters without it becoming a battle?
I was merely asking if anyone else had heard the rumours.
Frankly, I don't see why that would even be of interest to anyone other than students of HH Thaye Dorje.
Surely it must be possible to discuss these matters without it becoming a battle?
I was merely asking if anyone else had heard the rumours.
Frankly, I don't see why that would even be of interest to anyone other than students of HH Thaye Dorje.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.