Simon E. wrote:Magnus, Greg didn't say that her practice would not have happened without her accepting her teacher's recognition. She was not proclaiming his tulkudom. She was saying that his recognition by others and her direct contact with HH had inspired her.
Surely it must be possible to discuss these matters without it becoming a battle?
I was merely asking if anyone else had heard the rumours.
Frankly, I don't see why that would even be of interest to anyone other than students of HH Thaye Dorje.
My point was that it really shouldn't matter for Gregs friends practice if Thaye Dorje is the Karmapa or not, which was something implied in Gregs post.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
heart wrote:When taking instructions from a master one should not really care about if he/she is this or that tulku but instead care about if he/she is a qualified master or not. If he/she have the lineage and the instructions. If it is a qualified master the tulku title is pretty uninteresting for your friends Tara practice. Also, your friend certainly isn't qualified to recognize who is or isn't a tulku, this is normally left to the senior lamas of the lineage.
/magnus
So you are agreeing with me then.
"My religion is not deceiving myself." Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss." The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Knotty Veneer wrote:
And yet you can't help yourself passive-aggressively trying to point score, Simon. Let it go, eh.
That's projection Knotty-Veener. There was no 'point scoring' involved until you read it into it.
I was pointing out that the Chinese Govt are up to their armpits in this situation already, so I see no reason for them to hold back now. Their backing one of the serious candidates does not in itself invalidate the claims being made for him.
Although the PRC did agree to offically recognise him when he was originally enthroned, it really cannot and should not be said that Ogyen Trinley is "supported" or "backed" by the PRC Govt. Supporters of the late Shamar Rinpoche continue to repeat this lie in attempt to cast him as a traitor and so undermine his candidacy. Your statement is not a bare statement of fact. It is disingenuous.
The PRC are up to their armpits in pretty much anything that represents power in Tibetan society--from the Panchen Lama issue, to their assertion that they will recognize the next DL......but, given the close relationship between Karmapa Orgyen Tinley Dorje and His Holiness, it is my impression that the PRC have a tangled situation on their hands. Frankly, the PRC "recognition" makes sense as politics when one considers how the situation was at that time--a young, high "reincarnate" lama in Chinese territory, most definitely a useful pawn in the eyes of the PRC. I suspect, however, there may be some regrets in the PRC's hallways these days.
I suspect their "strategy" at this point is to keep the waters as muddy as possible, regarding the Karmapa issue, rather than to broadcast their "endorsement" loudly. I think this is the case at this time, certainly.
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
That makes sense Cone. As I said the PRC's recognition of Karmapa O.T's enthronement has zero impact on my view of the issue apart from noting their meddling in all things Tibetan.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Knotty Veneer wrote:Although the PRC did agree to offically recognise him when he was originally enthroned, it really cannot and should not be said that Ogyen Trinley is "supported" or "backed" by the PRC Govt. Supporters of the late Shamar Rinpoche continue to repeat this lie in attempt to cast him as a traitor and so undermine his candidacy. Your statement is not a bare statement of fact. It is disingenuous.
In Greece we say: it ain't shit, it's manure. In Australia we say: half a dozen of one, six of the other.
In Aus everything is upside down. We say six of one half a dozen of the other
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