Deity outside of sadhana

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Könchok Thrinley
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Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Hello,

I would like to ask whether it is possible to practice a deity outside of sadhana, by which I mean just visualizing yourself as the deity (after refuge and bodhicita ofcourse) then doing mantra, then dissolve and dedicate, without having any specific sadhana.

For example today I received via webcast a white tara empowerment from Garchen rinpoche and would very much like to practice it, however I don't know if I can practice according to the sadhana called "refined drop of immortality" and there was no lung of any sadhana, so can I just visualize myself as white tara? Or was some sadhana transmitted with the empowerment?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Isn't such a practice just divine pride?
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Soma999 »

Personaly, that's what i do when i don't have much time. I generate the deity instantly without any specific recitation, perform recitation of the mantra, dissolve the visualisation, rest in meditation a little and dedicate.

I call upon the wisdom aspect of the deity immediatly. If i have difficulty with visual details, i generate the feeling the deity is present, and i dive into this sensation without puting tension in visual details.

I find the recitation of the Heart sutra before a practice bring something, and it only takes a minute.

All deity are one, and all deity are one with the Guru which is a principle both outside and inside. And also all that is one with your own wisdom mind.
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by jkarlins »

Yeah, definitely.

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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Malcolm »

Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:26 pm Hello,

I would like to ask whether it is possible to practice a deity outside of sadhana, by which I mean just visualizing yourself as the deity (after refuge and bodhicita ofcourse) then doing mantra, then dissolve and dedicate, without having any specific sadhana.

For example today I received via webcast a white tara empowerment from Garchen rinpoche and would very much like to practice it, however I don't know if I can practice according to the sadhana called "refined drop of immortality" and there was no lung of any sadhana, so can I just visualize myself as white tara? Or was some sadhana transmitted with the empowerment?
usually the lung comes with the jenang.
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by conebeckham »

Best if you can get the sadhana, instructions, and do the practice. But if you're taking this as a yidam you should be recollecting yourself always as the deity. In the Kagyu traditions most deity yogas are gradual, but there are elements of instant self-generation in most sadhanas as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with your approach, but divine pride will be more stable if you commit to formal sessions using the sadhana.

You could also ask if other White Tara sadhanas would be appropriate. There are quite a few out there; I'm fond of Kongtrul's Daily Yoga.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
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དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Thank you all for you replies. :-)

Unfortunately it seems there was no mentioning of any specific sadhana during the empowerment. So I will try to email Garchen institute, however I doubt they will know.

Thank you all very much.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by dzogchungpa »

Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:58 pm Thank you all for you replies. :-)

Unfortunately it seems there was no mentioning of any specific sadhana during the empowerment. So I will try to email Garchen institute, however I doubt they will know.

Thank you all very much.

There's one called "Refined Drop of Immortality: A Longevity Maṇḍala Practice of Ārya Tārā, the Wish-Granting Cakra" that I think is the main one GR's students use. You can find it online.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm There's one called "Refined Drop of Immortality: A Longevity Maṇḍala Practice of Ārya Tārā, the Wish-Granting Cakra" that I think is the main one GR's students use. You can find it online.
Oh, I found that one! Is it okay to use that one? Do you have some experience with this practice?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by heart »

Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:45 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm There's one called "Refined Drop of Immortality: A Longevity Maṇḍala Practice of Ārya Tārā, the Wish-Granting Cakra" that I think is the main one GR's students use. You can find it online.
Oh, I found that one! Is it okay to use that one? Do you have some experience with this practice?
This sadhana is written by Garchen Rinpoche himself.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by dzogchungpa »

Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:45 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm There's one called "Refined Drop of Immortality: A Longevity Maṇḍala Practice of Ārya Tārā, the Wish-Granting Cakra" that I think is the main one GR's students use. You can find it online.
Oh, I found that one! Is it okay to use that one? Do you have some experience with this practice?
I have not done it. I'm sure it is OK to use it. If you contact the GR people I'm sure they will respond. Also, it seems you can hear some teachings about this sadhana here: http://www.dharma-media.org/mfs6.php?mediaID=00000152
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Once again. Thank you so much! :twothumbsup:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:20 pm usually the lung comes with the jenang.
Is this the case even when the sadhana transmission isn't explicitly mentioned, or is it that the mantra is transmitted and that means you can practice any sadhana of that deity's form? Maybe you can go into detail on the various types of "transmissions"?
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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Charlie123 »

heart wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm
Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:45 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm There's one called "Refined Drop of Immortality: A Longevity Maṇḍala Practice of Ārya Tārā, the Wish-Granting Cakra" that I think is the main one GR's students use. You can find it online.
Oh, I found that one! Is it okay to use that one? Do you have some experience with this practice?
This sadhana is written by Garchen Rinpoche himself.

/magnus
Just wanted to correct this because many people have this misconception. The sadhana was written by the previous (7th) Garchen, a ngakpa who was the guru of the current (8th) Garchen Rinpoche's root guru, Siddha Chime Dorje.
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Mantrik »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:58 pm Thank you all for you replies. :-)

Unfortunately it seems there was no mentioning of any specific sadhana during the empowerment. So I will try to email Garchen institute, however I doubt they will know.

Thank you all very much.
Try the Facebook Groups as they often know such things:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/198756584175549/
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by heart »

mandog wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:15 am
heart wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm
Miroku wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:45 pm

Oh, I found that one! Is it okay to use that one? Do you have some experience with this practice?
This sadhana is written by Garchen Rinpoche himself.

/magnus
Just wanted to correct this because many people have this misconception. The sadhana was written by the previous (7th) Garchen, a ngakpa who was the guru of the current (8th) Garchen Rinpoche's root guru, Siddha Chime Dorje.
Ok, thank you for that.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

I always thought that the whole purpose of sadhana practice was so that one could develop the mind thatvone cultivates in formal sadhana practice sessions, so that it becomes spontaneous in everyday life, “off the cushion” or in “post-meditation” as it’s often called.

Otherwise, it’s like, “yeah, I’m Jake from customer support during the day, but once a week from 7-9pm I’m Six-Armed Chenrezig”.

Great teachers seem to have accomplished manifesting the qualities of the yidams and protectors all the time.
I always thought that was the point, and why it is called Dharma practice.
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

If you go to the gym and workout regularly your “at home” body will improve. No additional effort is needed to have the benefits of the gym go home with you. It’s the same with the cushion.

Of course once you’re back home it would be counterproductive to pig out on double cheeseburger combo meals. And off the cushion it’s important to watch your karma. But the cushion affords mental activities not usually available in day to day life. (Usually.)
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2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
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Re: Deity outside of sadhana

Post by Grigoris »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:26 pm Hello,

I would like to ask whether it is possible to practice a deity outside of sadhana, by which I mean just visualizing yourself as the deity (after refuge and bodhicita ofcourse) then doing mantra, then dissolve and dedicate, without having any specific sadhana.

For example today I received via webcast a white tara empowerment from Garchen rinpoche and would very much like to practice it, however I don't know if I can practice according to the sadhana called "refined drop of immortality" and there was no lung of any sadhana, so can I just visualize myself as white tara? Or was some sadhana transmitted with the empowerment?
My teacher gave us a mantra to accumulate as part of samaya for receiving the lung and tri for a particular text. He told us to do the mantra whenever we can, no need for formal sadhana practice. Just accumulating while working, walking, shopping, eating, etc...
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