Thoughts on Vajra Hell

LookingInside
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:28 am

Om.
I am pretty sure I'm going to Vajra Hell,
And as such I suppose I should learn to look forward to it,
Since I am told to not fear anything,
And to live without apprehension.

It is curious to think about.
It seems the sort of place humans would think of,
When describing their fear of samsara,
And not the sort of place an enlightened being would fear,
Knowing pain is just another play of forms,
and a basis for the path.

They say anyone who proudly expounds to the public,
About the methods of secret Tantrayanna,
Will go, alongside their guru, to Vajra Hell.
So I suppose a small handful of Kagyu gurus are going with me.

I did not do these things proudly, but since any pride at all is all pride,
I am guilty. So, having taken empowerment with them, they are guilty.
And we are therefore condemned, as it is written.

They say that for a yogi(ni) to go to prison is a rare honor,
A chance to practice Dharma under severe difficulties,
So clearly Vajra Hell is a greater honor,
A better, perhaps the very best, place to practice.
What a challenge to see emptiness in the quintessence of all hells!
What a privilege to be given the opportunity to try!

Yet, while I sit here, excited at the prospect,
It occurs to me that H.H. Dalai Lama, H.H. Karmapa, H.E. Garchen Rinpoche,
Give empowerment to thousands at a time, with samaya,
And have done so in many past lives as well,
And statistically it is assured that some of those disciples,
Drunk from alcohol or in the throes of passion,
Or perhaps demented from old age,
Have indeed proudly expounded the secret Tantrayanna to the public.
Yet here are the gurus still teaching.

I have been taught not to judge others,
Not to criticize other traditions,
Not to let pride blind me.
But to read posts here saying "All other Buddhists gain no benefit without empowerment",
And from my Lama, "All other traditions are worldly and inferior".
I shake my head and frown.
I can't say such opinions are wrong,
but it stirs some voice within,
Warning me to think carefully.

I grew up with the Bible, raised Christian,
And having seen my inner nature,
And having had my visions and understanding confirmed by the Lama,
when I now read of the Christian God,
I think "Maybe under all that was intentionally mis-written there is the same truth underneath".
The Dalai Lama has spoken similarly of other religions.

When I came to Buddhism I was surrounded by darkness,
And finding the Buddha to teach complete compassion,
Was spontaneously moved to vow to practice the Dharma in this and all future lifetimes.
Hearing words of complete forgiveness,
I was moved to abandon all other spiritual attachment,
And I will never, ever go back on that.

But here, in Buddhism, I do not find many beings practicing compassion.
I see a lot of yogis in temples,
Contrary to what the ancients said,
And these yogis judge, living hypocritically, contrary to what they know to be right,
Because pride has enveloped them,
And as long as their Lama approves they feel above reproach,
As Tibet falls further into captivity.

So when I speak to Buddhists from other traditions,
And they call Tantrayanna a cult, and warn me that I should leave,
I am no longer surprised.

Trungpa Rinpoche lived an interesting life,
Was informally cast out of the sangha at least twice as I understand it,
Once while alive,
Once while dead,
Many of his students lost faith,
Many of them, feeling betrayed, later proudly expounded Tantric methods to the public,
Or uploaded secret texts to public servers,
Which is how I found them.
Yet Trungpa Rinpoche did not go to Vajra Hell.

I consider myself to be a devoted disciple of Trungpa Rinpoche,
But there is no way possible that I could do more to upset the Dharma's balance than he,
So, upon reflection, it seems it will take an enormous effort to go to Vajra Hell.
Perhaps I'm not so easily blessed to visit it after all.

If you are afraid, of what are you afraid?
In Buddhism the idea is to break out of boxes.
After all, do mentally-created boxes exist?
Is the way to escape a mentally-created box simply to stop pretending it exists?

I am not an intelligent person,
I am not well-read,
Nor highly educated.
Perhaps I am not wise enough to see,
What it is that I should be afraid of.

When I reached the path of seeing,
The very first thing I realized,
Is that Buddhism,
And Buddha,
And all the Lamas and Rinpoches and sanghas,
Are nothing at all.
Inherently meaningless.
It is the Dharma, the oral instructions, that are the key that unlocks the door.
Everything else is fluff, window dressing, yesterday's forgotten dream.
And even the Dharma is nothing at all,
Once it has completely unlocked that door.

They say the only Buddha resides within.
If that is so,
I do not wish the hypocrites to be caretakers of the secret way anymore.
It is said Buddhas do not strive,
They effortlessly aid all sentient beings.
While I am a vastly inferior and unworthy vessel,
I vow that any Buddha-field which I may somehow earn through accumulated merit,
Will be devoted to helping the lineages adapt,
To lives without corruption and hypocrisy,
In a modern technological world,
That has abandoned,
And desperately needs,
The Way.

In desperation, without authorization, I have prayed for the destruction of Tantric vow-breakers,
I have performed the sadhana of their destruction,
Even though this may result in the killing of enlightened beings,
And even though it may produce no result besides condemning myself,
Because I would rather condemn myself in a failed effort to restore balance to this world,
Than live in fear while the unfaithful and corrupt profit.

So maybe I will go to Vajra Hell after all.

Trungpa Rinpoche says,
Wherever you are, befriend the cage you find yourself in.
So if I go to Vajra Hell,
I shall endeavor to befriend the agony,
The torture,
The endless cycles of pain,
Without fear or hypocrisy,
Hiding nothing.

They say in the life you realize your true nature,
You will be beyond religion.
No matter what path I take,
Someone will call me a heretic,
So I shall endeavor to do what seems right,
Regardless of who says it is wrong,
Or what is written.
Maybe the write thing and the rite thing isn't always the right thing.

May the guru forgive me for all that I have done,
As I forgive the universe for all it has done to me.
May all who read this find perfect enlightenment,
May all holy teachers enjoy long lives free of suffering,
Many the negative karmas of all beings be visited upon me and not them,
May the suffering stop forever.
I love you all, even though, in truth, I'm pretty sure nothing else exists yet to love me in return.
Soha.

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liuzg150181
Posts: 229
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:00 pm

Uh,are you alright? :o

Tenma
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:54 pm

LookingInside wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:28 am
Om.
I am pretty sure I'm going to Vajra Hell,
And as such I suppose I should learn to look forward to it,
Since I am told to not fear anything,
And to live without apprehension.

It is curious to think about.
It seems the sort of place humans would think of,
When describing their fear of samsara,
And not the sort of place an enlightened being would fear,
Knowing pain is just another play of forms,
and a basis for the path.

They say anyone who proudly expounds to the public,
About the methods of secret Tantrayanna,
Will go, alongside their guru, to Vajra Hell.
So I suppose a small handful of Kagyu gurus are going with me.

I did not do these things proudly, but since any pride at all is all pride,
I am guilty. So, having taken empowerment with them, they are guilty.
And we are therefore condemned, as it is written.

They say that for a yogi(ni) to go to prison is a rare honor,
A chance to practice Dharma under severe difficulties,
So clearly Vajra Hell is a greater honor,
A better, perhaps the very best, place to practice.
What a challenge to see emptiness in the quintessence of all hells!
What a privilege to be given the opportunity to try!

Yet, while I sit here, excited at the prospect,
It occurs to me that H.H. Dalai Lama, H.H. Karmapa, H.E. Garchen Rinpoche,
Give empowerment to thousands at a time, with samaya,
And have done so in many past lives as well,
And statistically it is assured that some of those disciples,
Drunk from alcohol or in the throes of passion,
Or perhaps demented from old age,
Have indeed proudly expounded the secret Tantrayanna to the public.
Yet here are the gurus still teaching.

I have been taught not to judge others,
Not to criticize other traditions,
Not to let pride blind me.
But to read posts here saying "All other Buddhists gain no benefit without empowerment",
And from my Lama, "All other traditions are worldly and inferior".
I shake my head and frown.
I can't say such opinions are wrong,
but it stirs some voice within,
Warning me to think carefully.

I grew up with the Bible, raised Christian,
And having seen my inner nature,
And having had my visions and understanding confirmed by the Lama,
when I now read of the Christian God,
I think "Maybe under all that was intentionally mis-written there is the same truth underneath".
The Dalai Lama has spoken similarly of other religions.

When I came to Buddhism I was surrounded by darkness,
And finding the Buddha to teach complete compassion,
Was spontaneously moved to vow to practice the Dharma in this and all future lifetimes.
Hearing words of complete forgiveness,
I was moved to abandon all other spiritual attachment,
And I will never, ever go back on that.

But here, in Buddhism, I do not find many beings practicing compassion.
I see a lot of yogis in temples,
Contrary to what the ancients said,
And these yogis judge, living hypocritically, contrary to what they know to be right,
Because pride has enveloped them,
And as long as their Lama approves they feel above reproach,
As Tibet falls further into captivity.

So when I speak to Buddhists from other traditions,
And they call Tantrayanna a cult, and warn me that I should leave,
I am no longer surprised.

Trungpa Rinpoche lived an interesting life,
Was informally cast out of the sangha at least twice as I understand it,
Once while alive,
Once while dead,
Many of his students lost faith,
Many of them, feeling betrayed, later proudly expounded Tantric methods to the public,
Or uploaded secret texts to public servers,
Which is how I found them.
Yet Trungpa Rinpoche did not go to Vajra Hell.

I consider myself to be a devoted disciple of Trungpa Rinpoche,
But there is no way possible that I could do more to upset the Dharma's balance than he,
So, upon reflection, it seems it will take an enormous effort to go to Vajra Hell.
Perhaps I'm not so easily blessed to visit it after all.

If you are afraid, of what are you afraid?
In Buddhism the idea is to break out of boxes.
After all, do mentally-created boxes exist?
Is the way to escape a mentally-created box simply to stop pretending it exists?

I am not an intelligent person,
I am not well-read,
Nor highly educated.
Perhaps I am not wise enough to see,
What it is that I should be afraid of.

When I reached the path of seeing,
The very first thing I realized,
Is that Buddhism,
And Buddha,
And all the Lamas and Rinpoches and sanghas,
Are nothing at all.
Inherently meaningless.
It is the Dharma, the oral instructions, that are the key that unlocks the door.
Everything else is fluff, window dressing, yesterday's forgotten dream.
And even the Dharma is nothing at all,
Once it has completely unlocked that door.

They say the only Buddha resides within.
If that is so,
I do not wish the hypocrites to be caretakers of the secret way anymore.
It is said Buddhas do not strive,
They effortlessly aid all sentient beings.
While I am a vastly inferior and unworthy vessel,
I vow that any Buddha-field which I may somehow earn through accumulated merit,
Will be devoted to helping the lineages adapt,
To lives without corruption and hypocrisy,
In a modern technological world,
That has abandoned,
And desperately needs,
The Way.

In desperation, without authorization, I have prayed for the destruction of Tantric vow-breakers,
I have performed the sadhana of their destruction,
Even though this may result in the killing of enlightened beings,
And even though it may produce no result besides condemning myself,
Because I would rather condemn myself in a failed effort to restore balance to this world,
Than live in fear while the unfaithful and corrupt profit.

So maybe I will go to Vajra Hell after all.

Trungpa Rinpoche says,
Wherever you are, befriend the cage you find yourself in.
So if I go to Vajra Hell,
I shall endeavor to befriend the agony,
The torture,
The endless cycles of pain,
Without fear or hypocrisy,
Hiding nothing.

They say in the life you realize your true nature,
You will be beyond religion.
No matter what path I take,
Someone will call me a heretic,
So I shall endeavor to do what seems right,
Regardless of who says it is wrong,
Or what is written.
Maybe the write thing and the rite thing isn't always the right thing.

May the guru forgive me for all that I have done,
As I forgive the universe for all it has done to me.
May all who read this find perfect enlightenment,
May all holy teachers enjoy long lives free of suffering,
Many the negative karmas of all beings be visited upon me and not them,
May the suffering stop forever.
I love you all, even though, in truth, I'm pretty sure nothing else exists yet to love me in return.
Soha.
Tres bien! That's a very nice doha you made! In what key shall this be sung?

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Grigoris
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:28 pm

LookingInside wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:28 am
When I reached the path of seeing,
So you are an Arya, a Noble One?

And all this without a teacher.

Pretty good. :thinking:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Vasana
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Vasana » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:03 pm

Don't believe everything you think. If you have reached the path of seeing I doubt you would be thinking in this way. First Bhumi Bodhisattvas don't fall that easy as far as I understand.

If you have a guru or can reach out to one you trust then you can set yourself straight and learn about the many nuances you may be missing here. When was the last time someone else you trust challenged your thinking styles and assumptions?
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

LookingInside
Posts: 12
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:56 am

liuzg150181 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:00 pm
Uh,are you alright? :o
Unfortunately.
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:28 pm
LookingInside wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:28 am
When I reached the path of seeing,
So you are an Arya, a Noble One?

And all this without a teacher.

Pretty good. :thinking:
What is an Arya?
I'm less than the illusion of a dog.
My words weren't meant to be commandments.
Just thoughts.
I apologize for the confusion.
Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:54 pm
Tres bien! That's a very nice doha you made! In what key shall this be sung?
Why would anyone sing such clumsy, useless words? Is it OK if I write a poem here? Is it OK if I express thoughts? Should I continue to ask for your permission in the future? I apologize for any disturbance my presumption has caused.

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Grigoris
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:04 am

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:56 am
What is an Arya?
I'm less than the illusion of a dog.
My words weren't meant to be commandments.
Just thoughts.
I apologize for the confusion.
Those who reach the path of seeing are referred to as Arya, Noble Ones, not ordinary beings.
Why would anyone sing such clumsy, useless words? Is it OK if I write a poem here? Is it OK if I express thoughts? Should I continue to ask for your permission in the future? I apologize for any disturbance my presumption has caused.
I think you will find that Tenma is being serious and you are being oversensitive and defensive as a consequence of your self-cherishing, not very Aryan at all! :smile:

Nobody got anywhere by being so serious.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

LookingInside
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:44 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:04 am
LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:56 am
What is an Arya?
I'm less than the illusion of a dog.
My words weren't meant to be commandments.
Just thoughts.
I apologize for the confusion.
Those who reach the path of seeing are referred to as Arya, Noble Ones, not ordinary beings.
Why would anyone sing such clumsy, useless words? Is it OK if I write a poem here? Is it OK if I express thoughts? Should I continue to ask for your permission in the future? I apologize for any disturbance my presumption has caused.
I think you will find that Tenma is being serious and you are being oversensitive and defensive as a consequence of your self-cherishing, not very Aryan at all! :smile:

Nobody got anywhere by being so serious.
It always weirds me out when people act like it's a big deal. Do you want me to describe it? Is that even allowed? Dont I need to carry the experience closely, hidden from others, like a rare jewel. Or something like that.
And there is no one here for Tenma to pay honor towards.
Vasana wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:03 pm
Don't believe everything you think. If you have reached the path of seeing I doubt you would be thinking in this way. First Bhumi Bodhisattvas don't fall that easy as far as I understand.

If you have a guru or can reach out to one you trust then you can set yourself straight and learn about the many nuances you may be missing here. When was the last time someone else you trust challenged your thinking styles and assumptions?
I missed your questions. I apologize.
I don't necessarily believe anything I think. But I think and believe (and know) that Mr. Donald Trump is about to become a legend within samsara, if samsara exists, which as far as I can tell it both does and doesn't, etc.

As a participant in the anonymous underground of the internet I get called every foul name you could think of on a minute-by minute-by basis. I'm not even allowed to repeat it here. I have been introducing Buddhism to the underbelly of the internet for years. All of that, of course, being no more than the play of forms yadda yadda etc etc and so on. But since the journey is the destination, why not? Adventures are fun.

What I did, is have a series of visions, found the Sadhana of Mahamudra and Tumo, performed it, performed both stages, and went inside. I never said I didn't have a teacher. In fact I said I had a small handfull, which is accurate. If that makes me an Arya then I still don't care and don't want the title. I don't want recognition. I will exist and state the truth. That's all.
Last edited by LookingInside on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:02 am

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:44 am
It always weirds me out when people act like it's a big deal. Do you want me to describe it? Is that even allowed? Dont I need to carry the experience closely, hidden from others, like a rare jewel. Or something like that.
If you were keeping it closely hidden then you would not have made a public post on the Internet about it. That is the complete opposite of "closely hidden". Actually it is bordering on bragging. Again: very un-Arya like behaviour.

If you are going to publicly make claims like these, then be prepared to be called out on them.
What I did, is have a series of visions, found the Sadhana of Mahamudra and Tumo, performed it, performed both stages, and went inside.
"Found"?
I never said I didn't have a teacher. In fact I said I had a small handfull, which is accurate.
These teachers gave you the instructions for aforementioned sadhana?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

LookingInside
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:25 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:02 am
LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:44 am
It always weirds me out when people act like it's a big deal. Do you want me to describe it? Is that even allowed? Dont I need to carry the experience closely, hidden from others, like a rare jewel. Or something like that.
If you were keeping it closely hidden then you would not have made a public post on the Internet about it. That is the complete opposite of "closely hidden". Actually it is bordering on bragging. Again: very un-Arya like behaviour.

If you are going to publicly make claims like these, then be prepared to be called out on them.
I already knew I could back them up. Now, focus on the breath. Where did all the words you just typed go? Back to nothingness. So who cares. I don't want to try to get into a "I'm most enlightened" thing. We both just are. And aren't. That's all.
What I did, is have a series of visions, found the Sadhana of Mahamudra and Tumo, performed it, performed both stages, and went inside.
"Found"?
I read a book called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism. Then I found that Mr. Trungpa wrote the Sadhana of Mahamudra for the public, it was to be performed certain days etc. So I did it. It works. Great stuff.
I never said I didn't have a teacher. In fact I said I had a small handfull, which is accurate.
These teachers gave you the instructions for aforementioned sadhana?
If you find the same instructions I did, yes. Every bit.

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:38 am

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:25 am
If you find the same instructions I did, yes. Every bit.
Okay, so you did not receive these instructions from a teacher, you read them in books.

Well, that explains a lot.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

LookingInside
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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:41 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:38 am
LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:25 am
If you find the same instructions I did, yes. Every bit.
Okay, so you did not receive these instructions from a teacher, you read them in books.

Well, that explains a lot.
I recieved the oral instructions and generated bliss and fell away

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:43 am

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:41 am
I recieved the oral instructions
Well, that was supremely unclear from your previous post. Who was the teacher?
and generated bliss and fell away
What does "and fell away" mean?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Mantrik » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:48 am

There is nothing so humble as going public with your humility.

I apologise as an unworthy excrescence for responding so.

Seriously, though, I know some Tibetans write a lot about how humble they are once they become teachers, perhaps as a convention. My immediate reaction is not at all one of overwhelming affection for their display of humble sentiments and a desire to prostrate, just a desire to see how well they actually behave - not too well in some cases. Cognitive assonance or just plain asses.
http://www.khyung.com

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:49 am

>quote=LookingInside post_id=424960 time=1514112073 user_id=9824]I recieved the oral instructions[/quote]
Well, that was supremely unclear from your previous post. Who was the teacher?
Chögyam Trungpa
and generated bliss and fell away
What does "and fell away" mean?
A place of single pointed awareness etc etc

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:56 am

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:49 am
Chögyam Trungpa
You were a student of Chogyam Trungpa? You met the man himself? That is some seriously good karma! I wish my karma was that good! When/where did you meet him?
A place of single pointed awareness etc etc
??? I mean: what "fell away"?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Tenma » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 pm

LookingInside wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:56 am
liuzg150181 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:00 pm
Uh,are you alright? :o
Unfortunately.
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:28 pm
LookingInside wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:28 am
When I reached the path of seeing,
So you are an Arya, a Noble One?

And all this without a teacher.

Pretty good. :thinking:
What is an Arya?
I'm less than the illusion of a dog.
My words weren't meant to be commandments.
Just thoughts.
I apologize for the confusion.
Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:54 pm
Tres bien! That's a very nice doha you made! In what key shall this be sung?
Why would anyone sing such clumsy, useless words? Is it OK if I write a poem here? Is it OK if I express thoughts? Should I continue to ask for your permission in the future? I apologize for any disturbance my presumption has caused.





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Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Josef » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:15 pm

You read some books by Trungpa and became confused.
Not the first or the last.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Norwegian
Posts: 1136
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by Norwegian » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:35 pm

Josef wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:15 pm
You read some books by Trungpa and became confused.
Not the first or the last.
Then after confusion came delusion...

LookingInside
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Vajra Hell

Post by LookingInside » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:15 pm

Josef wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:15 pm
You read some books by Trungpa and became confused.
Not the first or the last.
I found an audio recording of one of Mr. Trungpa's students leading the Sadhana. It wasn't particularly difficult to find. As I've mentioned, that particular Sadhana was written specifically to give to the Western public. I don't know if the recording was meant for the public but it can be purchased by the public so I tried it. People here get very hung up on the human body of the guru, as if guru isn't a principle that pervades all time and space. I also said I consider myself his disciple. I have no idea if he considers me one. You'd have to ask him. If you are fortunate enough to practice the Sadhana of Mahamudra you may have the opportunity. Depends on your karma, I guess.

Greg you are welcome to delete this thread if you care to. It is not important. Some things must be expressed to another (illusory though they may be) to create causes. I wrote this thread for a few reasons. Death isn't scary and meditating upon death isn't scary. Vajra Hell is scary. Meditating on the inevitability of Vajra Hell is terrifying. A real challenge to remain fearless then. Also it has come to my attention (again, illusory though it may be) that there are Tantric practitioners, mostly not belonging to the publicly-known lineages, who are practicing old-school left-hand path Hindu-style Tantra, and torturing children and so on, using their skulls etc. It would be nice if it stopped. I don't know that I can change it, but I am stating my intention to try.

As far as Arya go, they don't act any sort of way because they aren't actors. Even if an Arya decides to consume their own feces and request sex from their mother it is no one else's business to criticize. I'm pretty sure slandering an Arya carries significant negative karma so perhaps it would be better that this thread were deleted. I only needed one other person to read this for the causes I needed to be created. I don't have a lot of experience in how this stuff works but I can see telling someone is a form of confession and produces different effects than just staying quiet.

I don't want to be publicly recognized. I don't want titles. I don't like being called noble anything. I didn't know saying which path you were on was bragging. I thought most Buddhists reached the path of seeing before becoming Vajra students. It is illuminating to find that this is not so.

When you decide you are willing to face death to find the answers it creates a very interesting path. We all see the clear light at the point of death. All I did is figure out how to combine a near-death experience with Tumo. I explained my method to a Shangpa Kagyu Lama who said it was "very clever", which of course is a backhanded compliment to say I lacked adequate compassion. Too much mind, not enough heart/mind.

When I first woke up I was so excited to be part of something so wonderful. But not anymore. People are generally unpleasant. I realize this means I need to work on compassion more. Everyone does, pretty much.

If you run into him, tell Reggie I said "Hi".

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