Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

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Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 181
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Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:50 pm

I understand faith according to its basic definition provided by the Kośa: "śraddha (dad pa) is a mental factor that brings clarity to the mind." I don't have much use for faith beyond that. I do respect other's faith, but not when they use it as an argument in a discussion.
& how about the faith that Patrul rinpoche elucidates in WOMPT, or Jigme lingpa's presentation for that matter (4 levels). "Vivid faith, Eager faith, and confident faith".

""Just as taking refuge opens the gateway to all teachings and practices it is faith that opens the gateway to taking refuge " (P171)"


Vivid faith -- "" the faith that is inspired in us by thinking of the immense compassion of the Buddhas and great teachers."(172). "
"We might experience this kind of faith on visiting a temple containing many representations of the buddha's body, speech, and mind, or after an encounter with a great teacher or spiritual friend we have just met personally or whose qualities or life-story we have heard described."

Eager faith -- "Eager faith is our eagerness to be free of the sufferings of the lower realms" (172)

Confident faith ""It is total trust in the Three Jewels alone that comes from the knowledge that they are the only unfailing refuge" (Patrul rinpoche 172). "

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Malcolm
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Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:01 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:50 pm
I understand faith according to its basic definition provided by the Kośa: "śraddha (dad pa) is a mental factor that brings clarity to the mind." I don't have much use for faith beyond that. I do respect other's faith, but not when they use it as an argument in a discussion.
& how about the faith that Patrul rinpoche elucidates in WOMPT, or Jigme lingpa's presentation for that matter (4 levels). "Vivid faith, Eager faith, and confident faith".

""Just as taking refuge opens the gateway to all teachings and practices it is faith that opens the gateway to taking refuge " (P171)"


Vivid faith -- "" the faith that is inspired in us by thinking of the immense compassion of the Buddhas and great teachers."(172). "
"We might experience this kind of faith on visiting a temple containing many representations of the buddha's body, speech, and mind, or after an encounter with a great teacher or spiritual friend we have just met personally or whose qualities or life-story we have heard described."

Eager faith -- "Eager faith is our eagerness to be free of the sufferings of the lower realms" (172)

Confident faith ""It is total trust in the Three Jewels alone that comes from the knowledge that they are the only unfailing refuge" (Patrul rinpoche 172). "
Of the Three Jewels, Maitreyanatha tells us in the Uttaratantra, the only true refuge is the dharmakāya. So in my arrogance, I consider that to be my refuge, when we talk about the Three Jewels.

As for these other objects, if they make one's mind clear, and less afflicted, they are positive. But we Buddhists turn buddhas into demons all the time because of our clinging and attachment. I see it here somewhat frequently and am also guilty as charged.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:01 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:50 pm
I understand faith according to its basic definition provided by the Kośa: "śraddha (dad pa) is a mental factor that brings clarity to the mind." I don't have much use for faith beyond that. I do respect other's faith, but not when they use it as an argument in a discussion.
& how about the faith that Patrul rinpoche elucidates in WOMPT, or Jigme lingpa's presentation for that matter (4 levels). "Vivid faith, Eager faith, and confident faith".

""Just as taking refuge opens the gateway to all teachings and practices it is faith that opens the gateway to taking refuge " (P171)"


Vivid faith -- "" the faith that is inspired in us by thinking of the immense compassion of the Buddhas and great teachers."(172). "
"We might experience this kind of faith on visiting a temple containing many representations of the buddha's body, speech, and mind, or after an encounter with a great teacher or spiritual friend we have just met personally or whose qualities or life-story we have heard described."

Eager faith -- "Eager faith is our eagerness to be free of the sufferings of the lower realms" (172)

Confident faith ""It is total trust in the Three Jewels alone that comes from the knowledge that they are the only unfailing refuge" (Patrul rinpoche 172). "
Of the Three Jewels, Maitreyanatha tells us in the Uttaratantra, the only true refuge is the dharmakāya. So in my arrogance, I consider that to be my refuge, when we talk about the Three Jewels.

As for these other objects, if they make one's mind clear, and less afflicted, they are positive. But we Buddhists turn buddhas into demons all the time because of our clinging and attachment. I see it here somewhat frequently and am also guilty as charged.
As far as the Outer, inner, and secret guru is concerned, there is no hierarchy where one is higher/better than the other.

& according to the 3rd jamgon kongtrul rinpoche, it is actually not appropriate to separate them. (since these aspects are inseparable)

To be fair, if arguing from the perspective of the Uttaratantra then all aspects of the Buddha are not compounded phenomena, even the buddhas body (major and minor marks). Shentongpa's will go so far as to say all of the major and minor marks are fully present within everyone even if not perceived. However I am not interested in that debate, just throwing it out there.

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Malcolm
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Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:19 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:04 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:01 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:50 pm


& how about the faith that Patrul rinpoche elucidates in WOMPT, or Jigme lingpa's presentation for that matter (4 levels). "Vivid faith, Eager faith, and confident faith".

""Just as taking refuge opens the gateway to all teachings and practices it is faith that opens the gateway to taking refuge " (P171)"


Vivid faith -- "" the faith that is inspired in us by thinking of the immense compassion of the Buddhas and great teachers."(172). "
"We might experience this kind of faith on visiting a temple containing many representations of the buddha's body, speech, and mind, or after an encounter with a great teacher or spiritual friend we have just met personally or whose qualities or life-story we have heard described."

Eager faith -- "Eager faith is our eagerness to be free of the sufferings of the lower realms" (172)

Confident faith ""It is total trust in the Three Jewels alone that comes from the knowledge that they are the only unfailing refuge" (Patrul rinpoche 172). "
Of the Three Jewels, Maitreyanatha tells us in the Uttaratantra, the only true refuge is the dharmakāya. So in my arrogance, I consider that to be my refuge, when we talk about the Three Jewels.

As for these other objects, if they make one's mind clear, and less afflicted, they are positive. But we Buddhists turn buddhas into demons all the time because of our clinging and attachment. I see it here somewhat frequently and am also guilty as charged.
As far as the Outer, inner, and secret guru is concerned, there is no hierarchy where one is higher/better than the other.

& according to the 3rd jamgon kongtrul rinpoche, it is actually not appropriate to separate them. (since these aspects are inseparable)

To be fair, if arguing from the perspective of the Uttaratantra then all aspects of the Buddha are not compounded phenomena, even the buddhas body (major and minor marks). Shentongpa's will go so far as to say all of the major and minor marks are fully present within everyone even if not perceived. However I am not interested in that debate, just throwing it out there.
But from the aspect of the Prajñāpāramitā, as we know, whoever perceives a tathāgata through marks is not perceiving the tathāgata at all, to quote Conze's Diamond Sūtra translation:


The Lord continued: 'What do you think, Subhuti, can the Tathagata be seen by the possession of his marks?' Subhuti replied: 'No indeed, O Lord. And why? What has been taught by the Tathagata as the possession of marks, that is truly a no-possession of no-marks.' The Lord said: 'Wherever there is possession of marks, there is fraud, wherever there is no-possession of no-marks there is no fraud. Hence the Tathagata is to be seen from no marks as marks.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

gyamtsotrinle
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:29 am

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by gyamtsotrinle » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:27 pm

oh,..I am sorry, this was not my intention to spread this discussion to the little bit different direction. I just want to only know where is he now.:-) Not whether 16.Karmapa is like that or that. and so on. (anyway for me he is buddha, and Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is buddha for some of you) I am apolozige.

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Malcolm
Posts: 27369
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Malcolm » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:31 pm

gyamtsotrinle wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:27 pm
oh,..I am sorry, this was not my intention to spread this discussion to the little bit different direction. I just want to only know where is he now.:-) Not whether 16.Karmapa is like that or that. and so on. (anyway for me he is buddha, and Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is buddha for some of you) I am apolozige.
This is standard DW. Totally discursive entertainment for the discerning consumer of Dharma drama.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Lukeinaz
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by Lukeinaz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:11 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:31 pm
gyamtsotrinle wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:27 pm
oh,..I am sorry, this was not my intention to spread this discussion to the little bit different direction. I just want to only know where is he now.:-) Not whether 16.Karmapa is like that or that. and so on. (anyway for me he is buddha, and Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is buddha for some of you) I am apolozige.
This is standard DW. Totally discursive entertainment for the discerning consumer of Dharma drama.
Totally entertained, thank you!
And let your mind settle, loose and relaxed,
like a woollen blanket spread out on the ground…
Khenpo Gangshar

gb9810
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:28 am

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by gb9810 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:11 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:15 pm

When Buddhist grow up, they realize that there is no higher authority than their own personal opinion. Even their deference to their gurus is based solely on their own personal opinion.
:twothumbsup:

TaTa
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:15 am

Re: Another Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche

Post by TaTa » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:23 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:31 pm
gyamtsotrinle wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:27 pm
oh,..I am sorry, this was not my intention to spread this discussion to the little bit different direction. I just want to only know where is he now.:-) Not whether 16.Karmapa is like that or that. and so on. (anyway for me he is buddha, and Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is buddha for some of you) I am apolozige.
This is standard DW. Totally discursive entertainment for the discerning consumer of Dharma drama.
You know we can actually contribute to avoid that if we choose too

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