Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

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Kelwin
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Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Kelwin »

This is an amazing speech by Karmapa Orgyen Trinley, speaking out about so many things, I don't even know where to start.

Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Specified which Karmapa the post refers to, in the title, to avoid misinterpretation.
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honestdboy
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by honestdboy »

Wow, he’s very honest. He probably wanted to say more, but I think he said what he could. I’m happy to hear him speak about seeking reconciliation and not taking sides. I hope he finds great happiness and freedom in America.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Kelwin »

Agreed! No matter your perspective, he deserves a lot of credit for his courage.
I'm actually surprised the Buddhist corner of the internet hasn't exploded yet with some of the statements made here.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Simon E. »

I'm not surprised.

If the contentious points are available in print they might eventually make more of a splash..but I know for a fact that I am not alone* in not being arsed to plough through a 30 minute video to discover stuff that I could read in 5 minutes.
Particularly when it is being translated in a rather odd way as it goes out


* And this applies to some of younger people too.
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florin
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by florin »

Can someone offer a synopsis of the points raised?
I have watched about 15 min in total skipping here and there.
But i am still not entirely clear about why he is unhappy..
Is it about not getting enough support in the effort of reconciliation with the other side of KK?
Is it about his efforts being undermined?
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by matthijsbrouwer »

So, video seemed removed from youtube, but here it is (again)
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

H.H. spoke about his childhood a bit where he told he didn't have much freedom. Also he talked about his efforts to meet Shamar rinpoche, which he succeeded in and they talked, before Shamar Rinpoche's passing. Also he talked about people around him who want to stop saying prayers for Shamar Rinpoche's long life and cut Shamarpas out of lineage prayers. He basically talked about his efforts to bring the schysm to an end a bit or at least try to lessen the bad blood. Or it seemed to me. He also complained a bit about the general situation where he isn't sure he is the Karmapa but he does his best but the pressure is bit too much.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Vasana »

It's about his health and also a review of his life and activity. Also touches on the educational and training requirements of Tulkus let alone 'ordinary' people and how these requirements are often not met. Also touches on expectations and projections from his students and Lamas, sectarianism, the Sharmapa and the other Karmapa situation, other lineage challenges unique to this time. Among other things...

It's refreshing to see such honesty and humility in a tradition where high Lamas are not 'supposed' to be open about so many situations and pretend to always be exactly as their most devout students see them.

Many of the previous karmapas among others also apparently spoke on feelings of unworthiness and this is also characteristic of much Bodhisattva discourse to reveal one's shortcomings as a motivational admonishment. For me it's his courageous attitude and commitment to patience and Bodhichitta that is the unspoken teaching here. That and the fact that if Tulkus and reincarnate masters can experience such turbulence in their lives, why should we then expect an easy ride at all times?

May his health be harmonious and all of his aspirations and activities be spontaneously fulfilled.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by matthijsbrouwer »

Different people take different things from this talk. I highly recommend anyone with an interest in the Karma Kagyu to see and listen to it completely oneself.

What I take away from it is his disappointment in the situation with two Karmapas and the fact that different Labrangs do little to reconcile, he’s mentioning Situ and Gyaltsab Rinpoches as people that he should not need to ask to strive for this. He doesn’t like it that the situation has become so political. He feels 'downcast and depressed'. He feels he lacks proper education, realisation and doubts he's fit to be Karmapa. He's in the US not only because he has a medical issue, but also to heal body and mind, something that can't happen with his situation in India.
More is being said, watch the video.

It seems more than a little courageous to me. Given the sensitivity of the subject and how he feels about it and about himself. It also seems to me as if he prefers to give up his role, first calling for more appreciation for Shamar Rinpoche, the need for reconciliation and ending with a somewhat ambiguous note on 'whomever may lead in the future'.

From here what is happening? Are we going to appreciate his humbleness, honesty and courage and move on as if nothing else was said or intended? I care about reconciliation of the Karma Kagyu and hope it’s humanly possible, with one, two or no specific Karmapas whatsoever – take turns or let them be as mythical as Guru Rinpoche.

Looking at the bigger picture a bit: Gesar Mukpo made an interesting documentary 'tulku'. As interesting is the documentary 'My reincarnation' starring Namkhai Norbu. Last year one of the Jamgön Kongtrul's just quit. This says a lot about tulkus and how we perceive them, treat them, and allow them to be treated. At the same time "successful" and famous tulkus are being accused of (sexual and other) abuse. Responses have been scarce and then less then mature by most standards. I would prefer the Buddhist community and its leaders no longer ignore the elephant(s) in the room or use knockdowns as ‘pure view’, ‘crazy wisdom’, ‘it’s vajrayana’. There are political issues, spiritual issues, dogmatic issues and sectarian issues. I don't see how any lineage is going to survive by its followers and practitioners merely claiming it is entirely pure, and its leaders are courageous. System failure is nigh, my hope is especially the Vajrayana can embrace it and learn.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Grigoris »

Just to let people know: This is a touchy issue and if it devolves into another my Karmapa has a bigger...

...following than your Karmapa I will hand out warnings and suspensions and shut it down.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Punya »

Hopefully that's not going to happen, Greg. I would happily prostrate to both of them. Haven't watched all of the video yet, but I admire KOTR's courage and compassion. Let's hope some good comes of it.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Kelwin »

Grigoris wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:01 pm Just to let people know: This is a touchy issue and if it devolves into another my Karmapa has a bigger...

...following than your Karmapa I will hand out warnings and suspensions and shut it down.
Well, I think this video is interesting no matter anyone's perspective on the issue. In fact it's interesting for anyone who has ever met a tulku.

It seems it's not possible to edit my post anymore, maybe you can fix the link to the correct video?
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by philji »

I see no reason to close this down. In fa t I see many reasons to keep it open. I find it a little sad that people will not even put aside thirty minutes to watch the video but just want a summary. Hopefully much good will come from this honesty of the Karmapa.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Grigoris »

philji wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:11 pm I see no reason to close this down. In fa t I see many reasons to keep it open. I find it a little sad that people will not even put aside thirty minutes to watch the video but just want a summary. Hopefully much good will come from this honesty of the Karmapa.
Quit the meta-discussion please. I tried to watch the video but after about 15 minutes of Karmapa not saying anything in particular, I just shut down too. :shrug:
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by kirtu »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:42 pm Quit the meta-discussion please. I tried to watch the video but after about 15 minutes of Karmapa not saying anything in particular, I just shut down too. :shrug:

Actua;lly he is saying quite a lot.

Both Karmapas seem to be instituting major changes and getting some push back. To some extent I am reminded of Guru Rinpoche and Virupa*.

Kirt

* I don't mean this in any dualistic sense such as mapping one of the ancient masters to one of the modern men, etc.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Grigoris »

kirtu wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:53 pmActua;lly he is saying quite a lot.

Both Karmapas seem to be instituting major changes and getting some push back. To some extent I am reminded of Guru Rinpoche and Virupa*.

Kirt

* I don't mean this in any dualistic sense such as mapping one of the ancient masters to one of the modern men, etc.
I don't know... Maybe it is just not significant enough for me?

Truth be said, I have never seen any decent lama start a teaching by saying: "Look at me, I am so intelligent, so full of attainments, so knowledgeable, so wise, etc..." ie He did not say something that any other decent lama would not say. Maybe I'll give it another go.
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by Vasana »

For those interested in more comments and discussion on this, there is an FB 'thread' found here;

https://goo.gl/1vi1u6
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Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by dzogchungpa »

Vasana wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:29 pm For those interested in more comments and discussion on this, there is an FB 'thread' found here;

https://goo.gl/1vi1u6


There's a link in that thread to a page on a 'forbidden' site where you can find what appears to be a transcript. I will paste it below. Although I can't verify its accuracy, it seems to be correct for the part of the video I watched:

Today is the last day of the 35th Kagyu Monlam Chenmo. And so, just as I have requested of him, this year His Eminence Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche has gone to unfathomable efforts to come and preside over the Kagyu Monlam. My original plan was that Rinpoche only needed to attend a few of the most important events and did not need to come to everything but Rinpoche has, whenever he has been able, come to preside over the sessions whenever he could without missing a single day. This is extremely kind of him, so on the behalf of all the monastics and the lay people who have attended the Monlam, I would like to express my deepest thanks to Rinpoche.

Likewise, Kyabje Mingyur Rinpoche showed us the kindness of giving meditation instructions during the pre-Monlam teachings. And then, since then, during the time of the Kagyu Monlam, Rinpoche has also put in a lot of effort to come to many different events, both large and small. So, I would like to once again thank Rinpoche on behalf of everyone.

This year even though I was not there, everyone in the Monlam organising committee has taken on the responsibilities for their individual teams and co-operated, working together, just the same as they would if I were there. The results their work has produced are no different than how they would have been were I there, so I would like to take this opportunity to give my heartfelt thanks to Lama Chodrak, foremost amongst the Monlam workers and all the other workers as well. Thank you very much.

Likewise, the monks and nuns from the various monasteries, despite the fact that the weather has been very hot, they have been very exemplary and praiseworthy in all respects during this Monlam in terms of their motivation, conduct and everything else, even in the heat. So, I would like to also say thank you very much to all of you as well.

Likewise, the faithful people who have come from foreign countries, this year there have been many changes in the Monlam dates. This has caused you difficulties financially. Once you have arrived here, the weather has been hot and that gives you even more difficulties. But all of you participating makes the Kagyu Monlam into an international event. I think it shows that no matter where in the world we are from, our wishes are in unison, our wishes for world peace are in unison. Our wishes that all sentients be happy are in unison and so I would like to thank you all deeply.

Likewise, the place where we hold the Monlam is the sacred site of Bodhgaya, the noble land of India. The government of India, the federal government as well as the state government of Bihar and the local administration have all provided a great deal of assistance. Likewise, the administration of the Mahabodhi temple has also continually supported us not only in the past but also in the present, so I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation and thanks to all of them.

Till today, at first, I didn’t think I needed to say too much. But now I would like to take this opportunity to say a few things and I think that maybe it will bring a little bit of benefit. So, the main thing to talk about is that many people have been asking when the next Kagyu Monlam, the 36th, will be held. They are also asking that the time be fixed and not changed. Quite a few people have said this and generally from our point, we have gone to a lot of effort to have a definite schedule that didn’t change but sometimes there are events with other Lamas, other great Lamas and Monlams from other lineages that are being held at the same time and when they conflict with each other then it is not very easy for us or for them. And for that reason, we have had to postpone or change our dates for such reasons several times. Even though we have not wanted to reschedule there have been situations where we have no choice but to do so. But we are doing everything we can to avoid having to change our dates in the future. In the next few days, we will have meetings to decide on a fixed time for the Monlam. We will have free discussion about the schedule in the meetings and do our best to make a decision as soon as we can. And once we have decided, we will announce it immediately over the internet so that everyone can make advance preparations to come to the next Monlam. So we will try our hardest to inform you as soon as we can.

This year I did not really have the opportunity to attend the Monlam in person. However, as I have already said, the Monlam has been excellent and well-organised, no different than if I were there. And when I think about it, I was recognised as the Karmapa at the age of seven. And then at the age of 14, I was separated from Tibet and came to the noble land of India. Thinking about how it was when I went from being a little boy who didn’t really understand what a Karmapa is to being brought and put on the Karmapa’s throne and gradually having to take the responsibilities that entails, from my perspective, the Karmapa has a history of over 900 years and there have been 16 incarnations. To have qualities and abundant realisations such as they did and activities such as theirs, I don’t even have the confidence that I can hope for such. And I don’t, for myself, really believe that it will ever happen. But because I have received the blessings of the Karmapa to some degree, I have done my best. I have done my best but I am an ordinary person. So, no matter how much/hard I try, there are many situations where that is not enough, where it is beyond me.

Many people think to themselves that being the Karmapa, you know, is like some incredible thing but for me, that hasn’t happened. Even if I am the Karmapa, the situation is still that I really need to try hard. Gyalwa […] said, “Even the rebirth, the reincarnation of a Lama or a Tulku, should spend 12 years of purification, practising meditation to purify their remaining obstacles. It is necessary to practise meditation and accomplishment and retreat”. So, even if one is a Tulku or a reincarnation of a great Lama, you have to put in such efforts. For me, I don’t have any reasons or any basis to say that I am the reincarnation of any great Lama and since I am an ordinary person, I have to put in incredible effort even more than other people. But no matter how much effort I make, it is never enough, it is never ok. It never really reaches a level where it is sufficient. And for one side, this is because people have such high limitless hopes in me. On my own part, I do my absolute best to try to live up to them. And I do this with as much as I can with a pure motivation.

When I was little, a lot of people came to give me advice. They’d say, “You have to be really careful.” There are many people who have said to me, “You’re the Karmapa, so you have to be your best.” So many people said this but for my own part, I never had the motivation that I should compete with everyone else said to be the Karmapa and therefore be careful.

From my own point, I have had a pure motivation, whatever I am, making my best efforts no matter what. Even when I was studying in Tibet, in terms of my education, my tutors, my teachers and my tutors, the way they paid respect and so forth, were not the greatest. And once I arrived in India, one reason I came to India was to study and to receive the Dharma lineages, that is why I came.

So once I arrived, it should have been better than it had been in Tibet, but in terms of my education, there were many gaps. From one perspective, the fault was my own for being too lazy. And also, I am pretty smart and since I am pretty smart, no matter what I study I immediately get a little bored and think, “I get it.” Then I immediately feel disinterested. In addition to that, the Lamas and Khenpos whom I’ve studied with, we invited the best Lamas and Khenpos amongst our Kagyus but the best Lamas and Khenpos have their own monasteries, their own Dharma centres that they have to maintain and take care of, they have activities. Hence, they could not spend all of their time with me. So, for these reasons, sometimes I would have classes, sometimes I would not and this happened frequently.

In the past, I had the thought that if I went to a Gelugpa monastery, matriculated so to speak and followed the curriculum, I would have become a good scholar. But later when I thought about it, if I had gone to a Gelugpa monastery and gone through the studies, on the one side, there would have been nothing wrong with it. But on the other, since I have the title Karmapa, if the Karmapa were to go to a Gelugpa monastery to study, people would say that. Then in the future, if someone with the title of the overall head of the Kagyu were to do this, it’s like there would be a bit of a problem that would happen, historically.

So, I‘ve had many different discussions with Gelugpa geshes but I’ve never matriculated in a Gelug monastery. So, this is one issue. My own studies have not all been that high quality or good. Mainly what I know has come from me taking interest and putting the effort into it. I’ve never had any properly organized, thorough education. So, that’s one issue.

So, another issue is that, when I was recognized as Karmapa when I was seven, so I was just a little boy. From the time I was little, I grew up in Tsurphu Monastery. And when I was little, all the people around me were adults. So I had to do whatever they told me to. And I couldn’t say what I needed to do.

At first, of course, I didn’t know what I needed to do. And in addition to that, other than listen to them, I never had any freedom to say what I should do or should not do. Actually, when I was little, I did have a lot of hard times. For example, in terms of power, it’s the changtso who had all the power. And when people would come to give me gifts, they first of all had to take them to the changtso, the changtso would take them out and open all the gifts first. And those people were suspicious that there might be a bomb or poison or something like that. So, they would take them out and check to see whether, they take the gifts out to make sure that there was no bomb or poison. And once the gifts had been taken away, they were never brought back, almost all of them.

Also people would come and give money and say it was for me to give my parents. Those who knew my situation would give the money surreptitiously. At that time, there were always a lot of people around, right? So without knowing, they woul quickly slip it under my cushion, slip it under my cushion secretly. That’s what it was like. So, that’s what it was like when I was little.

I never really felt that I had any freedom of my own. And then I came to India. See, when I came to India, India is a free country, a democracy. So I’d hoped that once I arrived, I could do what I wanted. That was my hope. But when I first got to India, none of us had any knowledge about India. And at that time, the people who advised me, the people… my guides, the people who advised me, even though they definitely had pure motivation, there was none who was able to guide me, who was a hundred percent reliable. They didn’t know how things were done. So I had no one to guide me. So when we first began discussions with the Indian government, there was disharmony and disagreement in the discussion and this probably caused some suspicions. In any case, I’ve spent 18 years in India. And during this time, I have had continually difficulties and hassles as you all know. They said that I was sent by the Chinese or that I was a Chinese spy.

Many things have happened. But even though many things have happened, I still have done what I could. And the reason why I stayed up until now is because I feel like I must not give up on the teachings, the Kagyu teachings. Likewise, I’ve thought to myself that this is for the benefit of Tibet, for the benefit of all sentient beings. Thinking in this way, I stayed.

Also from another perspective, when I arrived in India, it was very fortunate. I had the fortune to meet His Holiness the Dalai Lama and hear his teachings. I had many opportunities to receive profound Dharma teachings from Jamgon Tai Situ Rinpoche and Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche. Likewise, I’ve had the opportunity to receive profound Dharma teachings from Tengyur Rinpoche, Bokar Ripoche and Yongzin Thrangu Rinpoche. And I feel that all of this has been very, very fortunate. Where I live is at Gyuto Monastery and the heart sons, they live elsewhere. Situ Rinpoche lives in Sherab Ling, Gyaltsab Rinpoche lives in Sikkim. There’s never been a place for all to spend an extended period of time at the same place. It’s like we’ve all been scattered.

When I read the lives of the previous Karmapas, the Karmapas and their heart sons all stayed together. Wherever they went, they were together. Whether its by teaching Dharma, or by taking care of each other. It was like, at that time, they all took care of each other but this has never happened with me. And for me, this is something I feel very disappointed about.

Then, to speak bluntly, after the 16th Karmapa passed away, we had a great rift in our Kamtsang lineage. I don’t need to say anything anymore about the old situations. But because of this, we have had some disagreements among the ladrangs. Many things have happened since I arrived in India. Some of you know, some don’t. There has been a lot of disharmony among the ladrangs and this has also caused me a lot of worries.

On one occasion, I invited Jamgon Tai Situ Rinpoche and Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche to come to Delhi, both Rinpoches are like the moon and the clouds in the sky. They are not stained by any faults but those who are underneath them, their attendants, I told them to tell their attendants, their people under them, that we have had a great disaster in the Kamtsang lineage. Such has never happened before. We’ve had a huge conflict. We’ve had a terrible violation of samsara, please do what you can to avoid that again. This is what I asked both Rinpoches. And they promised to do as I asked. Actually, to make such a request is like teaching Avalokiteshvara the Mani mantra, you shouldn’t have to say […] but I was too petty, too small minded and asked.

Also thinking that maybe it would be of benefit to the Karma Kagyu teachings, I went to see Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche. And when we were arranging a meeting, on our side shall we say, there were people who’d said it would not be okay to make a bad connection. Quite a few people said this. Some who were nearby said this vociferously. But I ignored that and I went to meet Shamar Rinpoche. And when we met, there was no really specific result that you could point to.

But now, Rinpoche has passed away, and I do feel a bit of comfort in my mind, that at least I was able to meet Rinpoche and tell him what I thought. So, this gives me a little bit of comfort. In general, we all know how important the Shamar Rinpoche has been in the history of the Karma Kagyu. But in the last few years, in the last couple of decades, so many events have occurred that many people say we should not recite long life prayers for Shamar Rinpoche and that we should remove the Shamar Rinpoches from our lineage supplications.

But I think that that is really not seeing the important points, because Shamar Rinpoche is not just the recent 14th Shamar Mipham Chokyi Lodro. The Shamar Rinpoche is a part of the ultimate lineage of our Karma Kamtsang, the lineage from Khedrup Drakpa Sengge to the present. It is not the name of a single person, it is not a single person.

No matter how much people say that the actions of the current Shamar Rinpoche were wrong, I think that we must not paint the activities of the entire Shamar lineage black. For this reason, I think that we must have a positive way of thinking about Shamar Rinpoche. I think we need to think about Buddhism in general and the lineage in the future.

Now Shamar Rinpoche has passed away and it is extremely important that there be no problems regarding his reincarnation. We have another situation or we say there are two different reincarnations. It will harm the Kamtsang in general and in future the Kamtsang will split into two factions, looking at each other as enemies and that would not be good in any way at all.

From the depths of my heart, I think we can have reconciliation. And I am doing a few things to bring that about. But it’s not something for one person to do. It’s so crucial that we remember that both sides need to be open. If we continue to always say bad things about each other and criticise each other, if we continue to do that, I do not think it will turn out well.

Our teachings, the Kamtsang are the same. Our Gurus are the same. The colour of our hats is the same. But if despite this we continue to cling to our own factions, no matter how right we are, we’ll have such bias towards our own sides that we will work for ourselves, to win for ourselves to defeat the others. So taking this on would be like a complete mistake. There’ll be nothing good about it. So, we often say there is the Shamar side and that there is the Situ side. There’s one side or the other. Actually we aren’t on the Situ Rinpoche side, we aren’t on the Shamar Rinpoche side. We are all on the Karma Kagyu side.

Otherwise, we’re filled with our own afflictions, the three poisons; we engage in partisanship and jealousy and at the same time say… and while we still do that we still… how to say… and if at that point we say I’m on Vajradhara’s side. There’s no benefit to that at all.

So these people say I’m pure, he’s pure, he’s a pure Kagyupa. But they’re not pure. But whether one is pure or not comes down to the practice we have in our mindstreams. It does not come down to whose side we are on. I think this is something we all need to keep in mind.

Another thing is that I’m in America. I spent many months abroad, the last six months in America. There are probably a lot of people who explain the reasons why I stayed abroad for such a long time. But independent of anyone else’s explanations, what I’d like to say is that the main reason I am staying abroad is that when I had a medical exam in Germany, they told me that I had a medical problem. So then I had an elderly attendant and for his sake I had to go to America and once I arrived there, I had to follow up on the medical problem they had told me of in Germany, and so that is one of the reasons.

Another matter is that, you know, for many years I’ve never had the opportunity to really rest — to rest both the body and the mind. Once I get back to India, there’ll be a lot of busy-ness and frenetic-ness so I would not be able to rest. So, I have stayed here to rest.

So, I stayed here because I’m thinking of the long term. Probably many people have said that I’m staying for my own personal benefit or that I had some insidious plan, but that is not it at all.

In brief, people think that I’m decisive and that whatever I’m doing, they say, “He’s the Karmapa,” so of course they’ll take it as definitely the case but for me, it’s not like that. No matter what decision I make or what action I do, there’s a lot I have to give up.

For my own part, I’ve done everything I could up till now. Everything I’ve done, I have done with a pure motivation. I’ve had a pure motivation but people will make things up. There are many people who make things up out of dislike, so there is nothing to do about that.

But amongst ourselves, there are many people who give incorrect explanations because they either do not know or do not understand what my real intentions are. Especially now that I’m staying in America, even the people I am around here have had a lot of anxiety. Likewise many people all over have had a lot of anxiety. And I have actually myself been quite downcast and depressed. This is because when other people look at what I have tried to do, they take it as a matter of course, but for my own part, I have had to give up a lot. None of it has been easy.

And even though it hasn’t been easy and when I ignore that and keep pushing ahead, if those around me do not believe in me then there’s no reason for me to pretend and keep going. So for that reason, I have been depressed.

But when you think about it from the perspective of the future, from the time of the first Karmapa, Düsum Khyenpa to the present, the Gyalwa Karmapa has been a Lama who has engaged only in Dharma activities, not one who has been involved in politics.

And now we’re at a critical time for the Snow Land of Tibet — we have come to a point where it is important to put efforts into both Dharma and politics. So for this reason we definitely need a political leader or a political guide. But for me, I don’t know how to give any political direction. I don’t know how to do this but since I have the title of Karmapa, it would not be appropriate.

Likewise, in terms of the dharma, the way I think to myself is that one does politics to accomplish short-term aims and benefit. Now, political people, they’re always changing. And also, politics means dividing into factions and then dividing into groups then trying to find profit and benefit.

But Dharma, Dharma means not divide into factions but instead bring benefit to all sentient beings who are as limitless as space. Its duration is that people don’t change posts immediately. Dharma is for protecting ourselves in this and in future lifetimes and for guiding ourselves in this until hereafter.

So the way Dharma and politics work is completely different. Since I have the responsibility of being a religious leader, I can only contend in the direction of the Dharma. When I was in Tibet, I was worried that I would have to get involved in politics. Once I arrived in India, I’ve always thought that if it came to me having to do political activities, I would not have the skills to do it, I wouldn’t know how to do it and I have no wish to do so. This is another important point for people to take into consideration.

In brief, from my own perspective, I don’t have such qualities of abundant realisations as the previous Karmapas had. If I, even though I lack those, were to continue to pretend, to deceive people, I feel I will be accumulating severely negative karma.

I have no feeling of delight, no thought of ‘I’ll get rich’ or have power or that many people like me, I don’t have any such… feel like there’s nothing that I can have such pride or confidence in. So sometimes I think there’s no point. There’s no point to continue deceiving others.

Sometimes I think it would be better to just live as an ordinary person, an ordinary Dharma practitioner. I sometimes think that and especially recently I felt this strongly.

This is because I have worked hard for many years but I can’t work hard all by myself. A single pillar can’t hold up a single building, can it? Everyone needs to work hard and help out. We say that everyone has to have people who take care of them. If you’re taking care of somebody, you need other people to take care of you.

Without any support for yourself, there’s no benefit to teaching and helping beings all by yourself. We Buddhists believe in karma – cause and effect. We believe in the view of inter-dependence. Inter-dependence means that in all situations, no matter what they may be, occur because of multiple causes and conditions. There’s nothing that can be accomplished with a single cause or a single condition. This is something that everyone needs to take into consideration.

In brief, our Kagyu lineage in general, and in particular the Karma Kamtsang, it’s like we’re a big family. It’s like a big family and in this family, the Gyalwa Karmapa is like the father of the family. But the father can’t take all the responsibility alone. The support of all the family members is needed.

Likewise, if you think about the history of the Kagyu lineage, and in particular the Karma Kamtsang, there have been many losses. For example, when the Mongol Gushen invaded, their armies razed many Karma Kamtsang monasteries and many lineages of practices and explanations were lost. Such terrible events have occurred and later after 1959, there was the Cultural Revolution.

So now we have an opportunity for the teachers to revive and flourish and so I’d like to ask everyone, to ask everyone to take this opportunity as your own and to make efforts.

Sometimes people don’t seem to understand how I think. They seem to be unable to understand my perspective. It’s quite possible this will happen. But the way i think, the most important thing is, I’m not saying that I can see far into the future or that I know how to think about the long term; but as much as I can, I try to take a long term view as I work.

It’s possible that some people cannot take such a long view but the leader, so called, if you’re going to be a leader… Once you believe in the leader, even though you may not understand all their plans and decisions, it is important to believe in them and support them.

But I’m not saying you must support me. I’m not asking for you to understand me. I’m not asking you to understand me. Instead I’m saying this is a general thing, no matter who the leader may be in the future, people need to keep this in mind.

So I leave it here today. I have spoken about several different issues and if I’ve made any mistakes or if I’ve said anything inappropriate, I beg your pardon.

So now whatever merit has been gathered during this Kagyu Monlam Chenmo, please dedicate for His Eminence Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche to live long and for his wishes to be accomplished spontaneously, to be able to soon set foot in Tibet and turn the vast and profound wheel of Dharma.

Likewise, for the masters of all lineages to live long, for the Sangha of the ten directions to be harmonious and have pure discipline and so forth as described in the great aspiration which is next. So please, everyone make such aspirations and dedications.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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PadmaVonSamba
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

My take on this speech is that (we) Kagyu dharma people need to get our own shit together and come together,
and quit waiting around for HH17K to wave some kind of magic wand and do everything himself.
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EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
honestdboy
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Karmapa OTR is not happy, speaks out

Post by honestdboy »

I thought it was a very good dharma talk with a refreshing dose of humility. He spoke against thinking of us against them and the need for reconciliation. He said we shouldn’t think about wanting victory for ourselves and defeat for those who oppose us. Sounds like real Buddhism to me.
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