Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

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Empty Desire
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Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:15 am

I received the Chakrasamvara Empowerment this Spring from Garchen Rinpoche including the Mantra Transmission. Is it then permissable to read the Chakrasamvara Root Tantra I would like to purchase and read to deepen connection? Does it explicitly require further transmission/permissions?
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

haha
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by haha » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:36 am

Empty Desire wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:15 am
I received the Chakrasamvara Empowerment this Spring from Garchen Rinpoche including the Mantra Transmission. Is it then permissable to read the Chakrasamvara Root Tantra I would like to purchase and read to deepen connection? Does it explicitly require further transmission/permissions?

Yes, you can read. Even before receiving, you can read it for academic purpose but you can’t practice it. If you have received full empowerment or consecration in the AnuttaraYoga Deity, you can read the commentaries on that topic; there are few available in English. That will clarify many points and will improve your practice.

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Empty Desire
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:13 pm

So I can read it and read the commentaries on it. But without specific transmission it is not permissable to practice this actual Tantra?

Really my intention is just to broaden understanding of the Deity and deepen the connection.

Thank-you for taking the time to answer!!
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Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

haha
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by haha » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:06 pm

For the case of tantra, you can read for academic purpose. For commentary, it depends on the commentators wish. They provide various provision who can read such commentary. If you have received full empowerment, then you may have chances to read various commentaries but that depends.

It is not possible to practice without the transmission. If one tries to do, it may not work. There are many elements one will not know without instruction. It takes quite a time to understand many aspects.
But definitely, you will get connection with that tantra and you will get opportunity to receive full empowerment in future.

For one case, I received the empowerment of particular deity but not the commentary. Every time when I read the sadhana, there is a sign of blessing. It is not because of my practice but because of blessing of unbroken and pure lineage. So receiving the empowerment will quicken your progress.

You also ask other people, too, as it is only my opinion or understanding.

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Empty Desire
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:33 pm

Great explanation!
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Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

haha
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by haha » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:01 pm

If you have time, you listen to H. H. Sakya Trichen interview. It was posted in another thread; it may be more authoritative.

https://learn.wisdompubs.org/podcast/h-h-sakya-trichen/

especially at 31 minutes.

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Empty Desire
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:15 pm

I had a little listen!!

I enjoyed hearing about how the secret teachings were given and practiced. In secret/remote locations at night.

Lama Vajranatha also said that HYT is best practiced at night.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Norwegian » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:40 pm

haha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:36 am
Yes, you can read. Even before receiving, you can read it for academic purpose but you can’t practice it.
This is wrong.

Nowhere in Buddhadharma is it explained that you can read for "academic purposes". The thing is, academics don't give a damn about what Buddhadharma says, because they use the excuse that they are academics, therefore they read, and do whatever they feel like in this context.

But if you've not received a relevant empowerment and transmission, it's a different story. Then you should wait until you do get the relevant empowerment and transmission.

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Malcolm
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:13 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:40 pm
haha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:36 am
Yes, you can read. Even before receiving, you can read it for academic purpose but you can’t practice it.
This is wrong.

Nowhere in Buddhadharma is it explained that you can read for "academic purposes". The thing is, academics don't give a damn about what Buddhadharma says, because they use the excuse that they are academics, therefore they read, and do whatever they feel like in this context.

But if you've not received a relevant empowerment and transmission, it's a different story. Then you should wait until you do get the relevant empowerment and transmission.
This is not saying that the OP has permission necessarily, it is merely recognition of that fact that yes one can read it if one wants.

M
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Norwegian
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Norwegian » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:16 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:13 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:40 pm
haha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:36 am
Yes, you can read. Even before receiving, you can read it for academic purpose but you can’t practice it.
This is wrong.

Nowhere in Buddhadharma is it explained that you can read for "academic purposes". The thing is, academics don't give a damn about what Buddhadharma says, because they use the excuse that they are academics, therefore they read, and do whatever they feel like in this context.

But if you've not received a relevant empowerment and transmission, it's a different story. Then you should wait until you do get the relevant empowerment and transmission.
This is not saying that the OP has permission necessarily, it is merely recognition of that fact that yes one can read it if one wants.

M
Sure.

Lhasa
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Lhasa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:39 pm

Have you received the lung from Garchen Rinpoche, for "A Guru Yoga that Brings the Dharmakaya onto the Path"? It is the first prayer in the blue Drikung Kagyu Prayer Book. If you have received it, you can use that prayer, it is a self-empowerment, and then read any text you have not received lung for. Garchen R. specifically stated this.

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Empty Desire
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:02 pm

No I haven't but would obviously like to, maybe he will give it again within the upcoming European Tour perhaps?

Is there a scope that it is defined to like only within Drikung Kagyu?
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Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

Lhasa
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Lhasa » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:53 am

Empty Desire wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:02 pm
No I haven't but would obviously like to, maybe he will give it again within the upcoming European Tour perhaps?

Is there a scope that it is defined to like only within Drikung Kagyu?
You can receive the transmission/lung from a recording. Maybe someone here can tell you where the video of it is. He did not place any limits on the texts one could use.

haha
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by haha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:55 am

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:40 pm
haha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:36 am
Yes, you can read. Even before receiving, you can read it for academic purpose but you can’t practice it.
This is wrong.

Nowhere in Buddhadharma is it explained that you can read for "academic purposes". The thing is, academics don't give a damn about what Buddhadharma says, because they use the excuse that they are academics, therefore they read, and do whatever they feel like in this context.

But if you've not received a relevant empowerment and transmission, it's a different story. Then you should wait until you do get the relevant empowerment and transmission.
Traditionally, what you have said might be correct.
When these texts were compose, literacy rate was very low. Mostly elite groups could read and were able to access such teachings in most cases. Now day many people are literate and can read. Not only that, these text are easily available in libraries or in book stores. While reading, some may understand, some may not understand such cryptic texts. This not my point here.


@Empty Desire
I checked Garchen Buddhist Institute youtube channel, recent teaching on Cakrasamvara is still available. You take your time and listen all available teachings. If you have strong desire to follow that teaching, then you receive next time when Garchen Rinpoche gives empowerment.
:anjali:

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Empty Desire
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Re: Chakrasamvara Root Tantra

Post by Empty Desire » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:56 pm

@haha Thanks!!

Anyone coming to this thread might find the below informative as a point of research, details meanings and history.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-s ... a-practice
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

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