Palzang Jangchub wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:14 pm
Ignorant_Fool wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:38 pm
Palzang Jangchub wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:36 pm
It occurs to me that not only could Matongha and Matangipa be different figures not to be conflated, but that the opposite may well be true. I think it's safe to say that even hagiographies of great masters have been subject to patriarchal bias, so perhaps Matangipa was really a dakini but those who retold the story and wrote it down decided that a male disciple who goes on to teach other great masters was more palatable.
I can definitely see something like this happening but surely it constitutes some serious breaches of samaya, not to mention that it's a pretty crazy thing to do ...
Eh, at the end of the day patriarchy is patriarchy, and misogyny is misogyny. Personally i think it's our job as practitioners to call out oppression when we see it and kindly remind the perpetrators that just like Rhett habe buddha-nature, so do all beings. Even the ones you hate or malign as other and sub-human. Practitioner friends of mine have disagreed with me on this, seeing social justice as politics that shouldn't be mixed with Dharma. But i think we're kissing ourselves if we think Tibetan Buddhism is antithetical to politics. All you have to do is look at the history to know that's not the case. We don't need to deny the relative truth if we can benefit beings with pure intention. Same with not having revulsion towards our aggregates.
It appears that Matangipa, at least according to all the sources i found, is depicted as a man.
_ Yogi Matang-gi pa.jpg
He's on the Drikung Kagyu refuge tree, too. I do believe that Drikung Kagyu gets their lineage of Mar-Ngok Hevajra thru Karma Kagyu originally, so it makes sense there would be common figures before Marpa.
Apparently Matangipa also is mentioned in Buddhas Lions
as one of the 84 Mahasiddhas from India. If you can somehow find a copy, see pp. 285-288.
From Leksheyling, a Kamtsangpa website, there is mention in Tilopa's bio:
http://leksheyling.net/pages/english/Li ... ang-po.htm
From Shri Matangi (according to other sources Dakini Matongha) Tilopa received the teachings on resurrection of the dead body.
the main, very much so, reason why, generally, in every part of the world, cultures, and so on, women are less involved together with men in ceratina activity, it's very simple.
Nothing to do with mysogin stuff. In the past ther were villages, comunity, and before maybe caves, tribes, etc.
Men attitude, to invade, to conquer, fight, etc, tend to leave out of those fights and wars, women, for obvious reasons. So, for millennia, women were wainting, in the cave, in the village hut or elsewhere, looking after children, etc, like it happens in any other, basically, animal social family.
We humans think we are so different, but we are not. Sometime, some Buddha try to move the wheel, for enhancing human minds, but, as we all see, even right now, wars, tribes, fights, are still all at their very place. So, millenias spent with women looking after children and men out for hunting or fighting, or maybe just defending their tribes , families, etc. So, there is not any hate, mysoginy means to hate women, towards women, is just the product, natural, of millennias. On the other hand you wouldn't send your wife out of a cave in order to fight some enemies attacking the village. It's very simple. Now days we still have the echo of that kind of life. There is not a rational, willing, misogyny going on, except, of course, it might be there for some crazy man. Psicologically, we are not that free, as we maybe think, from this past millennias kind of life. Humane beings overestimate themselves a lot. We are not very different from what we were 50,000 years ago. It must be understood that there is a psychic inertia that goes on, because it has left a very deep mark, for hundreds of thousands of years, and it is not correct to speak of 'misogyny', or the contrary.
Therefore, we do not look at our ancestors as if they were stupid misogynists, who kept women from their business. Generally, men's business was aggressive, and women were well off to protect themselves and protect their children. Even today, in the Courts, the tendency during separation practices is to leave the children to the mother. And in cases of abortion, the last word is up to women, even when the father is a great person, not at all misogynist. It is a tendency that is affected by thousands of years, in which things went as I have described. To conclude, of course I had to simplify a lot, you can not give a retroactive judgment, starting from the current psychic condition of humanity, which still has a thousand variations even today on the planet, to comment on the way of life 2000 years ago. Let's remember, that on this planet, currently live cultures that send missiles in space along with others who live in the forest (perhaps more wisely!)