Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Here is the English transcript of the joint statement:
His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje and His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje met over the last few days at a rural location in France. Their purpose was to get to know each other personally. They also discussed how they might work together to preserve and strengthen the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. More here
His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje and His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje met over the last few days at a rural location in France. Their purpose was to get to know each other personally. They also discussed how they might work together to preserve and strengthen the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. More here
- Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
如傑優婆塞 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:36 am Here is the English transcript of the joint statement:
His Holiness Ogyen Trinley Dorje and His Holiness Trinley Thaye Dorje met over the last few days at a rural location in France. Their purpose was to get to know each other personally. They also discussed how they might work together to preserve and strengthen the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. More here
This is amazing! Really, so perfect.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
good news
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Excellent news - I have been waiting and hoping for this to happen.
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Wow! This is a turn up for the books. Although I believe Karmapa Ogyen Trinley had hinted at some efforts in this regard recently. Don't know how they are going to heal the rift but delighted to see they are working on it. Let's hope something comes of it.
Not a picture I thought I'd ever see:
Not a picture I thought I'd ever see:
This is not the wrong life.
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
This is wonderful news! Thank you for sharing it.
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
I rejoice in their combined skillful means here and pray that their compassionate activities may be spontaneously accomplished. May any intra-sectarian divisions and suspicions be healed for Lamas, teachers and students alike.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Such good news!
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
For the benefit of beings. What a wonderful example for us all.
Namu Amida Butsu
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
I guess they can work together to ensure we only have one 18th Karmapa, one Shamarpa etc. going forward. The rift can easily be healed if there is the will from this generation of lamas.
This is such wonderful news for both 'sides'. Karmapa khyenno!!
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Just speculation on my part, but given the recent health concerns of Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, there may have been some incentive to make this kind of meeting happen. (As far as I know, there are no current health concerns for either Karmapa.)
For example, very likely, one will pass before the other. An important point of discussion would most certainly be how to handle that, and whether/how the remaining Karmapa would then assume responsibility for both branches.
In the meantime, hopefully we will see greater collaboration.
For example, very likely, one will pass before the other. An important point of discussion would most certainly be how to handle that, and whether/how the remaining Karmapa would then assume responsibility for both branches.
In the meantime, hopefully we will see greater collaboration.
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Truly wonderful news, and an example for us all
'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Joyful.
Heartfelt salutations to both Precious Teachers.
And to all of the followers of each.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Excellent news, we Buddhists really need to get along.
People often quote the Buddha as saying the dharma will not be destroyed from outside forces but from within.
May there be harmony among all lineages.
People often quote the Buddha as saying the dharma will not be destroyed from outside forces but from within.
May there be harmony among all lineages.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
I think that Ogyen Trinley’s health was only part of the reason he was in the US. I think he was so frustrated by the Indian Govt’s control over his movements both in India and internationally, he decided to leave for a while. As a refugee he would have had to rely on Indian travel documents and seek the Govt’s permission every time he wanted to leave the country. During his time abroad he has obtained a Dominican passport and so can now travel freely outside of India without the Indian Govt’s permission.anjali wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:29 pm Just speculation on my part, but given the recent health concerns of Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, there may have been some incentive to make this kind of meeting happen. (As far as I know, there are no current health concerns for either Karmapa.)
For example, very likely, one will pass before the other. An important point of discussion would most certainly be how to handle that, and whether/how the remaining Karmapa would then assume responsibility for both branches.
In the meantime, hopefully we will see greater collaboration.
I don’t think we can really speculate on what the meeting of the two leaders might bring forth. It all looks very tentative at the moment. I imagine both teachers are getting to know each other, hopefully listening carefully to the other’s thoughts and concerns, and exploring what might be possible.
I don’t think we should expect any game-changing announcements anytime soon, though.
However, given Ogyen Trinley’s new freedom to move around, a softening of India’s approach to him (as seen in his permission to visit Sikkim), Thaye Dorje marrying and becoming a father, and now this meeting of the two, it’s certainly a time of positive change across the lineage after so many years of division. Let’s hope it bears positive fruit for all concerned.
This is not the wrong life.
- Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Can't agree more. Plus lets be honest. The issued statement is mostly full of empty words. The best thing about it is that they got to hang out with each other. Other than that nothing much has changed really. But I hope the division will be healed and there will be pressure on certain lamas on both sides that got caught up in the sectarian nonsense to open up.Knotty Veneer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:52 am I think that Ogyen Trinley’s health was only part of the reason he was in the US. I think he was so frustrated by the Indian Govt’s control over his movements both in India and internationally, he decided to leave for a while. As a refugee he would have had to rely on Indian travel documents and seek the Govt’s permission every time he wanted to leave the country. During his time abroad he has obtained a Dominican passport and so can now travel freely outside of India without the Indian Govt’s permission.
I don’t think we can really speculate on what the meeting of the two leaders might bring forth. It all looks very tentative at the moment. I imagine both teachers are getting to know each other, hopefully listening carefully to the other’s thoughts and concerns, and exploring what might be possible.
I don’t think we should expect any game-changing announcements anytime soon, though.
However, given Ogyen Trinley’s new freedom to move around, a softening of India’s approach to him (as seen in his permission to visit Sikkim), Thaye Dorje marrying and becoming a father, and now this meeting of the two, it’s certainly a time of positive change across the lineage after so many years of division. Let’s hope it bears positive fruit for all concerned.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
Either 'nothing has changed' OR there is 'pressure on certain Lamas (and lay people) caught up in sectarian nonsense to open up'..both statements can't be true I would suggest
Anyway, back to fishin'..
Anyway, back to fishin'..
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
I am very happy that this meeting occured. I hope that the first visible step forward would be to organize joint Karma Kagyu monlam presided by both Karmapas, instead of having two separate ones.
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Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
As I said, it's probably too soon to start creating expectations of where this could lead. Doing so will invariably lead to disappointment.
I, for one, am going to take a leaf out of the Zen practitioner's book and adopt "don't know mind" for while.
This is not the wrong life.
Re: Joint Statement of the Two Karmapas
It's also in Tibet Sun:
https://www.tibetsun.com/news/2018/10/1 ... haye-dorje
and tricycle:
https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/karmapas-meet/
.
https://www.tibetsun.com/news/2018/10/1 ... haye-dorje
and tricycle:
https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/karmapas-meet/
.
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.
~ Tilopa
~ Tilopa