Drikung Kagyu

Miroku
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Miroku » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:37 pm

Motova wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:00 pm
KoolAid900 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:44 pm
Motova wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 pm


They have Drikung Phowa and Achi.

Oh yeah! How could I forget about Achi!?? There are other lineages with Achi too (Karma Kagyu and probably others), but it's sort of a Drikung specialty. She was Jigten Sumgon's (lineage founder) grandmother and is now practiced as Dharmapala, Dakini, Yidam, and sometimes Lama (in guru yoga).

Javier, are you connected with a lineage?

Cairy
Gelugpas also practice Achi, I bet Nyingma too....
Yes, but there is a special relationship between Achi and Drikung Kagyu lineage.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:53 am

KoolAid900 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:32 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 pm
Hello All,

Is there a particular characteristic for the Drikung Kagyu Lamas and education?
Hi Javier,

I am not 100% sure what you are asking... but I'll give it a shot. Speaking with Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche this summer, he told me that currently at Jangchubling (the main seat of Drikung Kagyu in exile) in order to become a Khenpo one has to complete one's education fully, then teach for a period of time at the college, then complete a three year retreat. This seems to be a relatively new development, especially the 3 year retreat requirement. So some who became Khenpos before that, may not have gone through all those steps. Rinpoche felt that its probably too stringent now as an over reaction to it being a little too easy before. So that's what's going on with being a Khenpo. A Drupon goes through all the same steps, but after being interviewed by Holiness Chetsang Rinpoche is determined to have had a certain degree of experience in meditation indicative of an ability to guide others through retreats. Rinpoche is an honorific term often used for tulkus or especially accomplished teachers.

As far as the Drikung Kagyu lineage in general, it has both monastic and yogic components. Many hundreds of years ago, it was a large lineage in Tibet, but later was eclipsed in size and political power, which is kind of cool in a way (although there are politics everywhere there are people, the Drikung Kagyu lineage and teachers seem to have less political burden in a sense than say Karmapa and the Karma Kagyu Lamas).

Three things the Drikungpas are famous for are: an especially easy and powerful Phowa practice, Fivefold Mahamudra formulation (which actually came from Phagmodrupa prior to the founder of the Drikung Kagyu) and producing accomplished Yogis (like Garchen Rinpoche & Druwang Rinpoche). If you are interested in seeing something about the Drikung Kagyu Yogis (including a brief interview with the amazing Druwang Rinpoche) and yogic practices, you can check out the movie, Yogis of Tibet.
Thank you. About a year I met a DK Khenpo that's living here in my country.

ok, the story is as follows. I begged for guidance on vajrayana because i want to preserve it and i consider my self very ignorant in this; then, about a month after, a brother and I met at the IDC gompa here in muy country to do some Tara practice (we are very much like Arya Tara fans) at an insusual time. We where doing our mantra stuff and suddendly, i mean suddendly, the door whas knocked and there was a small and ugly neplese like person in monk robes smiling: he was Khenpo Phuntzok Tendzin. this is how i met him. We took a break and talked about things, this and that, and knew he was was a very kind and learned ladakhi Khenpo of the DK Lineage that did all the hardcore training you mentioned.

since then i have being watching him. i'm interested in him because good reasons.

but a few things are still missing for me to know:

1) i don't know the relation between student and dk lama is based on, i'm not so good at devotion stuff because i really don't trust much ancient tales, titles, etc. i prefer and unbreakable mutual confidence based on facts, dids, and trust, and i don't want to get in a fault in dk system. i'm not on blind faith.

2) i don't pray, and i went to a Tara practice with his students at his center and in dk pray a lot, i mean, like a lot, but it's ok but i couldn't do all tht in my daily stuff.

3) i already have a lot of transmission, do i need more? is it good to receive more? i have limited time to do my stuff.

4) i know nothing of mahamudra and i'm doing my best to apply ati yoga. i'm afraid i couldn't do both systems at the same time.

you see, this are more doubts/fears that are mine haha i tryed to be as honest as possible explaining them, i know most things i wrote here can be considered silly but those are more or less reasons why i ask :shrug:

pd: thank you all.
what are you doing

Miroku
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Miroku » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:27 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:53 am

1) i don't know the relation between student and dk lama is based on, i'm not so good at devotion stuff because i really don't trust much ancient tales, titles, etc. i prefer and unbreakable mutual confidence based on facts, dids, and trust, and i don't want to get in a fault in dk system. i'm not on blind faith.

2) i don't pray, and i went to a Tara practice with his students at his center and in dk pray a lot, i mean, like a lot, but it's ok but i couldn't do all tht in my daily stuff.

3) i already have a lot of transmission, do i need more? is it good to receive more? i have limited time to do my stuff.

4) i know nothing of mahamudra and i'm doing my best to apply ati yoga. i'm afraid i couldn't do both systems at the same time.

you see, this are more doubts/fears that are mine haha i tryed to be as honest as possible explaining them, i know most things i wrote here can be considered silly but those are more or less reasons why i ask :shrug:

pd: thank you all.
Devotion is important, but from my exp. it comes from as you say from the unbreakable trust. You watch closely the teacher and you see what he does for you, how morally he acts and from that trust is built and also love and devotion towards the teacher because you see his qualities and how much he is giving you through teachings, etc.

More praying that in DC for sure. Definetly expect traditional style sadhanas (imagine mandarava practice, sth like that). And Drikung is big on Ngöndro. Jigten Sumgon said that preliminaries are more important than the so called main practice. And I can say that for me the ngöndro is som powerful stuff.

And the last 2 are for you to deal with. I went around it that I just do my best to do gy everyday, try to be present, but mainly focus on Drikung transmission as that is where my heart is and I want to develop that connection.

Also specialty is extra practice of compassion at the end of the ngöndro.

ADDITION:
The Song of the Realization of Fivefold Mahamudra

By Kagyupa Master of Drikungpa Jigten Sumgon

1. I bow to the feet of glorious Phagmodrupa.

If you do not win the race of benefiting others
by riding the stallion of love and compassion,
the watching crowds of humans and devas will not cheer you.
That is why you must apply your mind to this preliminary.

2. If your body as the king, the deity’s body,
does not maintain the throne of the unchanging basis,
the mother dakinis will not gather to be your subjects.
That is why you must apply your body to the yidam deity.

3. If the sun of your devotion does not shine
on the snow mountain of the guru’s four kayas,
the rivers of blessings will not come to you.
That is why you must apply your mind to devotion.

4. If the clouds of thoughts do not vanish
from the vast sky of your mind’s nature,
the planets and stars of the two wisdoms will not shine.
That is why you must apply your mind to non-thought.

5. If you do not polish with prayer
the wish-fulfilling jewel of the two accumulations,
the results that you desire and need will not appear.
That is why you should apply yourself to a concluding dedication.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:24 am

:good: :good: :good:

As for Achi, it's important to note that she was adopted into other lineages because people took notice of her swift ability to protect them, and that her protection doesn't seem to diminish the further from Drikung Thil you go (some protectors are limited to a certain sphere of influence geographically, as I understand it). Hence why she came to be included in the Refuge Tree (Tsok Shing) of Karma Kagyupas. I hadn't heard of her being adopted by the Gelukpas, but I don't doubt it.

Another few things worth noting about Achi:

1) She was known to have said Tara's mantra and taught the Dharma from a very early age, hence her name meaning "Dharma Tara." Garchen Rinpoche has a particularly strong connection to her, and named his center here in Ohio, Gar Drölma Chöling, after her.
2) Despite refusing many suitors and being disinterested in marriage, preferring to practice, she sought out a great yogi to be her husband and miraculously manifested all the food and necessities for the wedding, knowing that a great Dharma lineage would spring from them. She even wrote sadhanas of herself for future practitioners, anticipating the need (there are also oure vision practices from the previous Tritsab Rinpoche, one of the DK regents who taught the current Drikung Kyabgön Rinpoche before his flight into exile).
3) When she awakened, she went bodily and took both her horse and dog with her. Take that, rainbow body! ;)
4) She came back to be the awakened consort of Tsasum Lingpa in order to help his reveal his Yangphur terma (he was having trouble finding a suitable human consort and it would've spoiled otherwise, lost to humanity). Achi flew him to the mountain where it was to be found just in the nick of time. See: http://www.turtlehill.org/khen/tsa.html

Achi's sadhana that I received transmission of from Yogi Lama Gursam has some of the most beautiful language of any practice text I've seen thus far, and coming from me that says something! Khenchen Konchog Gyaltshen Rinpoche's commentary on it is masterful. Both can be found in his compendium of sadhanas called the Pearl Rosary. Anyone interested in Drikung practices would do well to at least look thru it, if not procure a copy for themselves.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:04 pm

Javier, I'd be interested to know more about this "ugly Ladakhi" Khenpo Phuntsok Tendzin you're referring to. I'm not so familiar with the Ladakhi side of our Drikung lineage, though there are at least a couple represented in the film Yogis of Tibet (easily found on YouTube).

I'll second Miroku's comments about devotion and say additionally that blind faith really has no place in Buddhadharma in general based on Buddha Shakyamuni's own words. As for the Kagyupas emphasis on devotion, don't forget that there's no devotion to the guru without first investigating the guru for some time. The tantras instruct us to monitor the guru for a period of 12 years or something, right?

It took me about 9 or so years of attending teachings and empowerments (both webcast and in person) before I realized that Gyalse Garchen Rinpoche was my root guru, and that was only after the Gyalwang Karmapa had to hint at it quite cleverly in a prophetic dream. Don't rush into devotion, even with such unassailable and universally respected gurus, is my advice (especially in light of the myriad scandals coming to light of late). Caveat emptor. Devotion is earned; in order for it to be sincere and uncontrived it must come from a deep trust garnered over time.

The amount of prayer performed in the Drikung lineage is not atypical, but rather quite standard for the Tibetan style of practice, in my experience. The DC's "sadhanas" are so essentialized that they confound me, to be quite honest. I know they work for some, and I'm not trying to attack them in any way (I've received the webcast Chöd transmission from ChNN Rinpoche)... They're simply not my cup of tea and quite different from what I've been exposed to, so I find that I need a bit more of the flowery language for formal sadhana on the cushion.

That said, Garchen Rinpoche is known for giving the essentialized instructions on certain practices, in particular the OM ĀH HŪNG vajra recitation (and other forms of Tummo) that focus on visualization of seed-syllables and such, so it's by no means all prayer and no meditation. Also, the way he gives samaya is that I need only recite the deity's mantra "as much as I am able." Keeping in mind that all yidams manifest from Dharmakaya, accomplishing one deity accomplishes all of them, so I personally wouldn't get too caught up on whether or not you have too many transmissions/empowerments already. Practice what your root guru tells you, or else whatever you feel drawn to and you have instructions for. To be inspired to practice is quite rare in this world, so take that energy and run with it!

Lastly, as to your comment about being unfamiliar with Mahamudra and already practicing the path of Dzogchen, as mentioned earlier there is a whole terma cycle of Ati Yogi held in Drikung called the Yangzab. Gyalse Garchen Rinpoche, the late Lamchen Gyalpo Rinpoche, and Lho Ontul Rinpoche seem to be the main holders and propagators of this, with Lama Thubten Nyima following closely behind as part of the younger generation (not to be overlooked). More about the Yangzab can be found online, particularly via Ontul Rinpoche's old but still quite useful website (http://www.dharma-media.org/wogmin/) and a few pages on Facebook (search for both "Yangzab" and "Drikung Dzogchen").
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

Crazywisdom
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:00 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:53 am
KoolAid900 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:32 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 pm
Hello All,

Is there a particular characteristic for the Drikung Kagyu Lamas and education?
Hi Javier,

I am not 100% sure what you are asking... but I'll give it a shot. Speaking with Drupon Thinley Ningpo Rinpoche this summer, he told me that currently at Jangchubling (the main seat of Drikung Kagyu in exile) in order to become a Khenpo one has to complete one's education fully, then teach for a period of time at the college, then complete a three year retreat. This seems to be a relatively new development, especially the 3 year retreat requirement. So some who became Khenpos before that, may not have gone through all those steps. Rinpoche felt that its probably too stringent now as an over reaction to it being a little too easy before. So that's what's going on with being a Khenpo. A Drupon goes through all the same steps, but after being interviewed by Holiness Chetsang Rinpoche is determined to have had a certain degree of experience in meditation indicative of an ability to guide others through retreats. Rinpoche is an honorific term often used for tulkus or especially accomplished teachers.

As far as the Drikung Kagyu lineage in general, it has both monastic and yogic components. Many hundreds of years ago, it was a large lineage in Tibet, but later was eclipsed in size and political power, which is kind of cool in a way (although there are politics everywhere there are people, the Drikung Kagyu lineage and teachers seem to have less political burden in a sense than say Karmapa and the Karma Kagyu Lamas).

Three things the Drikungpas are famous for are: an especially easy and powerful Phowa practice, Fivefold Mahamudra formulation (which actually came from Phagmodrupa prior to the founder of the Drikung Kagyu) and producing accomplished Yogis (like Garchen Rinpoche & Druwang Rinpoche). If you are interested in seeing something about the Drikung Kagyu Yogis (including a brief interview with the amazing Druwang Rinpoche) and yogic practices, you can check out the movie, Yogis of Tibet.
Thank you. About a year I met a DK Khenpo that's living here in my country.

ok, the story is as follows. I begged for guidance on vajrayana because i want to preserve it and i consider my self very ignorant in this; then, about a month after, a brother and I met at the IDC gompa here in muy country to do some Tara practice (we are very much like Arya Tara fans) at an insusual time. We where doing our mantra stuff and suddendly, i mean suddendly, the door whas knocked and there was a small and ugly neplese like person in monk robes smiling: he was Khenpo Phuntzok Tendzin. this is how i met him. We took a break and talked about things, this and that, and knew he was was a very kind and learned ladakhi Khenpo of the DK Lineage that did all the hardcore training you mentioned.

since then i have being watching him. i'm interested in him because good reasons.

but a few things are still missing for me to know:

1) i don't know the relation between student and dk lama is based on, i'm not so good at devotion stuff because i really don't trust much ancient tales, titles, etc. i prefer and unbreakable mutual confidence based on facts, dids, and trust, and i don't want to get in a fault in dk system. i'm not on blind faith.

2) i don't pray, and i went to a Tara practice with his students at his center and in dk pray a lot, i mean, like a lot, but it's ok but i couldn't do all tht in my daily stuff.

3) i already have a lot of transmission, do i need more? is it good to receive more? i have limited time to do my stuff.

4) i know nothing of mahamudra and i'm doing my best to apply ati yoga. i'm afraid i couldn't do both systems at the same time.

you see, this are more doubts/fears that are mine haha i tryed to be as honest as possible explaining them, i know most things i wrote here can be considered silly but those are more or less reasons why i ask :shrug:

pd: thank you all.
DK is amazing. Yes you have to be willing to endure their very traditional Tibetan Buddhist monastic culture. Their teachings are not blind faith. They are very clear and simple dharma methods. Faith is, after all, the first nidana of awakening.

Their people are usually the selling point. To a man they are very warm and kind. If you’re really interested in learning a lot of Tibetan Buddhism and you have a DK lama willing to help then you’ve got a great opportunity. If you like being at the periphery and feel good about your sadhana then you’ve prob got all you need.

The emphasis on devotion is something little understood. It mayonnaise. You love it or hate it. There is a good reason for it. I believe it comes from their Vajravarahi specialization. In her tantra I believe it declares, and I know from one of their sadhanas that it’s not number of recitations that activates her blessings, but yearning devotion -to what?- to manifest the body, speech, mind, qualities and activities of who? The guru. Which guru? Dharmakaya Vajradhara guru Buddha embodiment of all Buddhas of the three times. This stuff will sink in. They have a definite sort of advantage to their approach.

If you get into it pm me and I send you my sadhanas. I spent years boiling them down to basic English. That’s Coemergent Mahamudra.

And I know you’re DC. So DK also has ways to do really abbreviated sadhana. DK also goes in for simple freedom. What sets DK apart is their guys have done 3yr retreats where all they had was a vajra, bell and damaru. They know how to take it down to absolute bare bones.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:33 pm

There are some prayers that are fundamental to Mahayana career: The seven branch prayer is one A confession. A dedication. Birth among sentient beings as a Buddha comes from aspiration prayers. So of course, relative and ultimate bodhichitta.

Here’s a perspective from DK I really appreciate. It’s very perspicacious:

Bring yourself around to a place where for you rainbow body was a been there done that situation. Now, you’re here, the sentient beings are waiting for you to lead them to awakening. So... gather all your useful tools...
I got my Chili Chilaya.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:43 pm

Another great deal w DK, and this helps w devotion, is there’s a separation of powers. There’s the Tulku branch who give Empowerments. This is HH and Garchen, basically. Only the really universally respected guys will be your samaya teacher. You won’t get close enough to have a bad connection. Then there is the yogi branch. These guys give lungs and teachings. You might or might not get along well. That’s ok, that’s not your guru. In a sense you will merge them in one Guru Yoga. But because there’s this method of preserving samaya, the blessings devotion are earned and deserved. They are the practice blessing lineage. One thing you won’t be able to say is you don’t know the path. You won’t be able to say you can’t help beings because you’re not enlightened. For ever issue, they’ve got a method. It’s quite a deal.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:43 pm
Another great deal w DK, and this helps w devotion, is there’s a separation of powers. There’s the Tulku branch who give Empowerments. This is HH and Garchen, basically. Only the really universally respected guys will be your samaya teacher. You won’t get close enough to have a bad connection. Then there is the yogi branch. These guys give lungs and teachings. You might or might not get along well. That’s ok, that’s not your guru. In a sense you will merge them in one Guru Yoga. But because there’s this method of preserving samaya, the blessings devotion are earned and deserved. They are the practice blessing lineage. One thing you won’t be able to say is you don’t know the path. You won’t be able to say you can’t help beings because you’re not enlightened. For ever issue, they’ve got a method. It’s quite a deal.
As another poster pointed out, I would say there's a lack of political motivation (unless you consider combating climate change and going organic political), but I'm not sure what you're on about regarding the separation of powers as you've laid it out, Crazywisdom...

They're are definitely many, many lamas who give the trifecta of empowerments, transmissions, and teachings beyond the two tulkus you mentioned above. I've received all three from Gyalse Garchen, HH Drikung Kyabgön, Lamchen Gyalpo, Lho Ontul, Jetsun Traga, Lama Gursam, Lama Thubten Nyima, Drupon Thinley Nyingpo, and Khenpo Samdup. You'll notice that some of these are Rinpoches officially, some given the title out of respect; some are khenpos, lamas, and drupons, while the oldest of them tend to be tulkus. I've also received vows/samaya from Garchen, Gyalpo, Ontul, Traga, Thinley, Samdup, etc...

I will say, however, that I do agree that the samaya and practices given to you by your root guru supercede what other lineage lamas say. For instance, I follow the pith instructions of Garchen, Gyalpo, and Ontul Rinpoche over the more traditionalist path that Drupon Thinley and Khenpo Samdup have suggested whilst maintaining the utmost respect for them. There's no conflict there, as Drupon himself told me to take Garchen Rinpoche's advice about retreat and such over his.

The elder, more seasoned lamas are held in high regard and followed due to their realization, while the younger generation are impressive but still coming into their own. The same will apply once the old guard passes into nirvana and the newer ones born late into the occupation or in exile step into leading roles. I am both saddened and excited by the prospect of the imminent dissolving of my root gurus and Drupon Thinley, Khenpo Tenzin Nyima, Lama Bunima, Lama Thubten, and the rest becoming the preeminent lineage teachers.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:25 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:19 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:43 pm
Another great deal w DK, and this helps w devotion, is there’s a separation of powers. There’s the Tulku branch who give Empowerments. This is HH and Garchen, basically. Only the really universally respected guys will be your samaya teacher. You won’t get close enough to have a bad connection. Then there is the yogi branch. These guys give lungs and teachings. You might or might not get along well. That’s ok, that’s not your guru. In a sense you will merge them in one Guru Yoga. But because there’s this method of preserving samaya, the blessings devotion are earned and deserved. They are the practice blessing lineage. One thing you won’t be able to say is you don’t know the path. You won’t be able to say you can’t help beings because you’re not enlightened. For ever issue, they’ve got a method. It’s quite a deal.
As another poster pointed out, I would say there's a lack of political motivation (unless you consider combating climate change and going organic political), but I'm not sure what you're on about regarding the separation of powers as you've laid it out, Crazywisdom...

They're are definitely many, many lamas who give the trifecta of empowerments, transmissions, and teachings beyond the two tulkus you mentioned above. I've received all three from Gyalse Garchen, HH Drikung Kyabgön, Lamchen Gyalpo, Lho Ontul, Jetsun Traga, Lama Gursam, Lama Thubten Nyima, Drupon Thinley Nyingpo, and Khenpo Samdup. You'll notice that some of these are Rinpoches officially, some given the title out of respect; some are khenpos, lamas, and drupons, while the oldest of them tend to be tulkus. I've also received vows/samaya from Garchen, Gyalpo, Ontul, Traga, Thinley, Samdup, etc...

I will say, however, that I do agree that the samaya and practices given to you by your root guru supercede what other lineage lamas say. For instance, I follow the pith instructions of Garchen, Gyalpo, and Ontul Rinpoche over the more traditionalist path that Drupon Thinley and Khenpo Samdup have suggested whilst maintaining the utmost respect for them. There's no conflict there, as Drupon himself told me to take Garchen Rinpoche's advice about retreat and such over his.

The elder, more seasoned lamas are held in high regard and followed due to their realization, while the younger generation are impressive but still coming into their own. The same will apply once the old guard passes into nirvana and the newer ones born late into the occupation or in exile step into leading roles. I am both saddened and excited by the prospect of the imminent dissolving of my root gurus and Drupon Thinley, Khenpo Tenzin Nyima, Lama Bunima, Lama Thubten, and the rest becoming the preeminent lineage teachers.
What I’m on about is their teaching about the Golden Rosary and the history since Jigten Sumgön, the Tulku tradition and the yogi tradition. It dovetails with their method of guru yoga and changes the ordinary notion of devotion to a dude.
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Motova
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Motova » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:24 am
I hadn't heard of her being adopted by the Gelukpas, but I don't doubt it.

If I recall correctly, there were Drikung monasteries in the east of Tibet that were forcibly converted to Gelug... but Achi remained too popular.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

Miroku
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by Miroku » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:07 pm

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:19 pm
The elder, more seasoned lamas are held in high regard and followed due to their realization, while the younger generation are impressive but still coming into their own. The same will apply once the old guard passes into nirvana and the newer ones born late into the occupation or in exile step into leading roles. I am both saddened and excited by the prospect of the imminent dissolving of my root gurus and Drupon Thinley, Khenpo Tenzin Nyima, Lama Bunima, Lama Thubten, and the rest becoming the preeminent lineage teachers.
Oh, yes another great thing about Drikung lineage. Really no need to worry about it. Thanks to great lamas like H.H. Chetsan Rinpoche, Garchen Rinpoche, Drubwang Rinpoche, Ontul Rinpoche, Gyalpo Rinpoche, Khenchen Khonchog Rinpoche, and many others, the lineage is strong. And what more they are not afraid to experiment while holding the essence close to heart and thus bringing the practices closer to us modern folk.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Drikung Kagyu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:26 am

Palzang Jangchub wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:04 pm
Javier, I'd be interested to know more about this "ugly Ladakhi" Khenpo Phuntsok Tendzin you're referring to. I'm not so familiar with the Ladakhi side of our Drikung lineage, though there are at least a couple represented in the film Yogis of Tibet (easily found on YouTube).

I'll second Miroku's comments about devotion and say additionally that blind faith really has no place in Buddhadharma in general based on Buddha Shakyamuni's own words. As for the Kagyupas emphasis on devotion, don't forget that there's no devotion to the guru without first investigating the guru for some time. The tantras instruct us to monitor the guru for a period of 12 years or something, right?

It took me about 9 or so years of attending teachings and empowerments (both webcast and in person) before I realized that Gyalse Garchen Rinpoche was my root guru, and that was only after the Gyalwang Karmapa had to hint at it quite cleverly in a prophetic dream. Don't rush into devotion, even with such unassailable and universally respected gurus, is my advice (especially in light of the myriad scandals coming to light of late). Caveat emptor. Devotion is earned; in order for it to be sincere and uncontrived it must come from a deep trust garnered over time.

The amount of prayer performed in the Drikung lineage is not atypical, but rather quite standard for the Tibetan style of practice, in my experience. The DC's "sadhanas" are so essentialized that they confound me, to be quite honest. I know they work for some, and I'm not trying to attack them in any way (I've received the webcast Chöd transmission from ChNN Rinpoche)... They're simply not my cup of tea and quite different from what I've been exposed to, so I find that I need a bit more of the flowery language for formal sadhana on the cushion.

That said, Garchen Rinpoche is known for giving the essentialized instructions on certain practices, in particular the OM ĀH HŪNG vajra recitation (and other forms of Tummo) that focus on visualization of seed-syllables and such, so it's by no means all prayer and no meditation. Also, the way he gives samaya is that I need only recite the deity's mantra "as much as I am able." Keeping in mind that all yidams manifest from Dharmakaya, accomplishing one deity accomplishes all of them, so I personally wouldn't get too caught up on whether or not you have too many transmissions/empowerments already. Practice what your root guru tells you, or else whatever you feel drawn to and you have instructions for. To be inspired to practice is quite rare in this world, so take that energy and run with it!

Lastly, as to your comment about being unfamiliar with Mahamudra and already practicing the path of Dzogchen, as mentioned earlier there is a whole terma cycle of Ati Yogi held in Drikung called the Yangzab. Gyalse Garchen Rinpoche, the late Lamchen Gyalpo Rinpoche, and Lho Ontul Rinpoche seem to be the main holders and propagators of this, with Lama Thubten Nyima following closely behind as part of the younger generation (not to be overlooked). More about the Yangzab can be found online, particularly via Ontul Rinpoche's old but still quite useful website (http://www.dharma-media.org/wogmin/) and a few pages on Facebook (search for both "Yangzab" and "Drikung Dzogchen").
All i would say is that everything points to him to be a respectable one. I've bein doing my work and find out why he came, what's the difference with another DK center here, etc.

i already have a root guru, i'm supposed not to search much more but i'm really interested in vajrayana also. i feel in love with this, i want to learn and never forget it.

i will see, if circumstances are favorable, certainly i will go to him.
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