Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

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visitor_001
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Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by visitor_001 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:33 pm

I recently received the lung for the mandala offering practice for the Ngondro of the 9th Karmapa. Lama Jampa Thaye kindly gave me the lung but when one of his students explained the practical aspects of the practice we didn't have a text nor the mandala offering plates to work with. As a result I'm still quite confused about the mechanics of the practice and I don't have a sangha I can turn to for detailed instructions.

I was wondering if there are any Kagyu practitioners who had completed or currently doing the mandala offerings who would be prepared to answer some questions I have regarding this practice. It would probably be better to discuss it over private messages so we don't divulge any information which should remain secret.

I have read and studied Jamgon Kongtrul's The Torch Of Certainty but there are some points I feel I am missing.

Thanks in advance.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:58 am

There are some good instructions in the book, Words Of My Perfect TeacherBy Patrul Rinpoche.
Actually, it's full of all kinds of good stuff. But he goes into some detail about making Mandala offerings.
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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Jangchup Donden » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:38 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:58 am
There are some good instructions in the book, Words Of My Perfect TeacherBy Patrul Rinpoche.
Actually, it's full of all kinds of good stuff. But he goes into some detail about making Mandala offerings.
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There's a different pattern for doing the rice piles on the mandala plate in Karma Kagyu than Nyingma, so I don't think that text is accurate for this.

It may be worth contacting KTD's bookstore - I believe they have rather extensive commentary texts on each section of the Karma Kagyu Ngöndro.

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conebeckham
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by conebeckham » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:12 pm

The Torch of Certainty is essential.

I've done them, but I think a visual demonstration is the only way to go....you need to find someone who can show you in real time. It will all become clear.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Seeker12
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Seeker12 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:20 am

visitor_001 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:33 pm
I don't have a sangha I can turn to for detailed instructions.
How about Skype/FaceTime?
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace.

Better than if there were thousands of meaningless verses is one meaningful verse that on hearing brings peace.

And better than chanting hundreds of meaningless verses is one Dhamma-saying that on hearing brings peace.

Deemoid76
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Deemoid76 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:39 pm

Hi! Why don't you email lama Jampa's Manchester Sangha at manchester@dechen.org and ask if they can put you in touch with someone who could guide you through it. You could also ask to be put on the mailing list so that you're made aware of when Lama Jampa is giving interviews so you can ask him about the practice.

visitor_001
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by visitor_001 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:18 pm

Many thanks to everyone who offered suggestions regarding the mandala offering. Sorry for the tardiness of this response. I don't visit this site too often.

In the end I flew back to the UK again to get a demonstration from one of the kind sangha members from the Dechen community. It's a beautiful practice. Trying to maintain the visualisation is incredibly difficult for me so, on the advice of Lama Jampa Thaye, I switch focus between different aspects of the offering.

Once again, thanks for everyones contribution.

Danny
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Danny » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:14 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:12 pm
The Torch of Certainty is essential.

Agreed, is a small book and should be still in print and gives a good explanation of the nongdro sections for students

Danny
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Danny » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:26 pm

Jamgon Kongtruls instructions in The torch of certainty describes the pattern and placement of the offerings and in which order, and also has nice diagrams for students approaching guru yoga with preliminary mandala merit accumulations.

Best regards.

visitor_001
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by visitor_001 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:52 pm

Hi Danny.

Thanks for your reply. I had read The Torch of Certainty several times, but I became less certain after each reading. :0)

Actually, once someone had demonstrated the process too me once, the instructions in The Torch of Certainty actually fell into place and made a lot of sense. My initial problem was that I was approaching it blindly, so to speak.

I know this is in many ways a nonsensical question, but how did you find your levels of concentration during the offering. I have incredible difficulty staying focused on the visualisation. Lama Jampa Thaye gave me some excellent advice on simplifying the visualisation somewhat, but there are times when my mind simply won't stay on the meditation.

I know I shouldn't try to judge my meditation, nor try to compare it to others experiences, but have other practitioners had real difficulty with single pointed concentration on this meditation.

Thanks again.

Danny
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Danny » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:18 am

I think the essence of giving away our attachments to food and drink and music and money etc is the point, Buddhas etc don't need any of those things, but we do. As for meditation advice, I don't do that, but just keep at it.

Regards

Danny
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by Danny » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:24 am

Danny wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:18 am
As for meditation advice, I don't do that, but just keep at it.

Regards
Let me qualify that in case is miss understood, I don't give advice simply because I do not meditate and have no advice I could share about that type of thing.

visitor_001
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by visitor_001 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:32 pm

Ah, OK. I understand. Thanks anyway.

gawei
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Re: Karma Kagyu Ngondro - Mandala Offerings

Post by gawei » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:18 pm

visitor_001 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Hi Danny.

Thanks for your reply. I had read The Torch of Certainty several times, but I became less certain after each reading. :0)

Actually, once someone had demonstrated the process too me once, the instructions in The Torch of Certainty actually fell into place and made a lot of sense. My initial problem was that I was approaching it blindly, so to speak.

I know this is in many ways a nonsensical question, but how did you find your levels of concentration during the offering. I have incredible difficulty staying focused on the visualisation. Lama Jampa Thaye gave me some excellent advice on simplifying the visualisation somewhat, but there are times when my mind simply won't stay on the meditation.

I know I shouldn't try to judge my meditation, nor try to compare it to others experiences, but have other practitioners had real difficulty with single pointed concentration on this meditation.

Thanks again.
H.H. Sakya Trizin the 43rd once told us that, with practice, the quantity is to ensure quality. Not every visualisation has to be perfect 🙏🏼. What's important is that you're fully invested. For this, I find including one of the four virtuous contemplations before practice to be very helpful.

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