Following a new Lama

Justmeagain
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Following a new Lama

Post by Justmeagain » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:26 am

Hi just following on from a previous thread. With the risk of sounding trite I am very much drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche. Can one be a follower of a Lama without actually meeting him or receiving empowerment from him? I was initially initiated in the Gelug tradition but Dzongsar's teaching sing to me ☺

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Punya » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:38 am

Being drawn to a particular teacher is not trite.

It depends what you mean by follower, but one option for following DJKR: http://www.siddharthasintent.org/teachings-2/dharma-das

Rinpoche usually gives non-Vajrayana teachings in various parts of the world over the year, some of which are web-cast, although he's not doing that so much this year. Information about his teaching schedule is posted on the Siddhartha's Intent website.

With any teacher I'd say don't rush in, take your time. Listen to audio, read, watch videos (there's many from DJKR on Youtube and Vimeo) and get along to a live teaching when you can. Even if it takes a lot of effort.

:anjali:
Last edited by Punya on Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Ayu » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:43 am

The Buddhas do not contradict eachother. :smile:
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Malcolm
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:00 pm

Justmeagain wrote:Hi just following on from a previous thread. With the risk of sounding trite I am very much drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche. Can one be a follower of a Lama without actually meeting him or receiving empowerment from him? I was initially initiated in the Gelug tradition but Dzongsar's teaching sing to me ☺
Only in the same sense you can follow someone on twitter or facebook.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche talks...

Post by Terma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:41 pm

Justmeagain wrote:Thanks again. With the risk of sounding trite I am very much drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche. Can one be a follower of a Lama without actually meeting him or receiving empowerment from him? There's some sort of connection there. Maybe I should post this separately...
[Ayu's note:] Which you have done here:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 32#p331351
I think so. I have my own root Guru and another teacher that I mainly receive empowerments and practice instruction from, as well as teachings. This is the lineage that I practice in and the one I have connection with. But for a long time I have followed DJKR'S teachings and this has helped me a great deal too. There is no problem with this. For example, I am doing ngondro in my own root guru's lineage, but I find DJKR'S book "Not for Happiness" quite helpful in regards to doing ngondro.

Like you, I knew there is some kind of a connection, so make the aspiration to receive teachings directly from him in the future! This is how it worked out for me. He came to my city, I found out about it and attended a short talk and got a blessing empowerment (it was quite a large group), allowing me to make a direct connection in this life. Rinpoche even rushed right past me, but I was not quick enough to present a khata or anything. Of course, as is with Rinpoche it was quote spontaneous and unexpected.

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Terma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 pm

If you really want to make a connection, then you have to do so in person. Listening to teachings is fine and might be helpful but nothing will ever substitute for a face to face relationship with a teacher. Even then, just meeting a Guru isn't enough. You have to make the request that they accept you as a student. This is my opinion though, and exactly how I went about it.

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by heart » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:59 pm

Guru is actually much more important than school, it is a good thing to remember. But that doesn't mean you have to throw everything away that you already done.

/magnus
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Justmeagain » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Justmeagain wrote:Hi just following on from a previous thread. With the risk of sounding trite I am very much drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche. Can one be a follower of a Lama without actually meeting him or receiving empowerment from him? I was initially initiated in the Gelug tradition but Dzongsar's teaching sing to me ☺
Only in the same sense you can follow someone on twitter or facebook.
Don't understand that sorry

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Justmeagain » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:05 pm

Terma wrote:If you really want to make a connection, then you have to do so in person. Listening to teachings is fine and might be helpful but nothing will ever substitute for a face to face relationship with a teacher. Even then, just meeting a Guru isn't enough. You have to make the request that they accept you as a student. This is my opinion though, and exactly how I went about it.
I see. That makes it almost impossible. Work and a family dictate I couldn't travel sufficiently to keep up. Is a face to face (I gather you mean that literally) possible given how much Lamas like Dzongsar travel.

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Justmeagain » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:06 pm

heart wrote:Guru is actually much more important than school, it is a good thing to remember. But that doesn't mean you have to throw everything away that you already done.

/magnus
No of course not. What I have learned to date is of immeasurable value. I guess I feel uncomfortable looking to another Lama.....feel like having a mistress :shock:

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by tingdzin » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:02 pm

My guess is that you feel drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche because of his public message (books and public teachings, etc.) which I too find very on-point. This is a different thing from a personal relationship with a teacher whom you meet face-to-face, and who knows you personally at least a little bit, and who belongs to a specific tradition. There is nothing wrong with learning all you can from D. Rinpoche and incorporating his very useful insights into your life, while receiving instruction on your individual spiritual path from another teacher, unless you feel that their advice somehow conflicts. Does it?

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Terma » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:04 pm

tingdzin wrote:My guess is that you feel drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche because of his public message (books and public teachings, etc.) which I too find very on-point. This is a different thing from a personal relationship with a teacher whom you meet face-to-face, and who knows you personally at least a little bit, and who belongs to a specific tradition. There is nothing wrong with learning all you can from D. Rinpoche and incorporating his very useful insights into your life, while receiving instruction on your individual spiritual path from another teacher, unless you feel that their advice somehow conflicts. Does it?
Exactly my advice @Justmeagain.

We all have different obstacles or may lack the merit to seek out whichever teacher we wish to but as tingdzin said, there is no reason why you can't make full use out of DJKR'S teachings while continuing to practice in your own tradition. In public, Rinpoche really only teaches Mahayana anyways. He constantly teaches Bodhicitta and accumulating both merit and wisdom, for example. It most often strikes to the very heart of Dharma, in which case there would never be a contradiction. Rinpoche is also very Rime in attitude as well.

Remember, that generally we practice the dharma that is suited to our conditions at the present time. I'm certain that you have a karmic connection to Rinpoche since his teachings strike you so deeply. So even if you don'the feel you have the conditions to have a relationship face to face, still follow Rinpoche's teachings and advice. I'm sure it would mesh with your own personal practice just fine.

Also, make aspirations, and so-forth...it does help.

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by heart » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:52 pm

Justmeagain wrote:
heart wrote:Guru is actually much more important than school, it is a good thing to remember. But that doesn't mean you have to throw everything away that you already done.

/magnus
No of course not. What I have learned to date is of immeasurable value. I guess I feel uncomfortable looking to another Lama.....feel like having a mistress :shock:
You are not allowed to receive teachings from anyone else than your master? Or maybe you make a drama out of nothing?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Virgo » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:04 am

Justmeagain wrote:Hi just following on from a previous thread. With the risk of sounding trite I am very much drawn to Dzongsar Rinpoche. Can one be a follower of a Lama without actually meeting him or receiving empowerment from him? I was initially initiated in the Gelug tradition but Dzongsar's teaching sing to me ☺
You are not really following him until you make that special connection.

Kevin

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:28 am

Not to compare us plebes to these guys, but the great Rime masters and others had a ton of different teachers. IME thus far (a neophyte compared to many on here of course), the important thing is to realize how precious what you've gotten is, and to honor any teachers who've made an impact by actually putting everything into practice instead of collecting teachings.

Even if someone doesn't have that "special" Lama, or is unsure, if you've learned practices that have put you on the better path and transformed your circumstances, there is so much to have gratitude for.

My understanding is there are a number of different "correct" setups for root guru and number of teachers, depending on school, personal inclination, advice of other teachers etc.
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by muni » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:33 am

Hello Justmeagain,

While I agree as well with direct-interconnection master-student, it is our own intention what makes the difference. A Buddhist Master (Wisdoms' Compassion) is there to help us to examine ourselves, to come to know "how we appear and are, and by that automatically how all appear and how all is". At least so for me.

This for the only sake: to realize that our personhood is fake and is the cause of our suffering and all harm. Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche is guiding, as well as his Wisdom Siblings. Feeling connection must be there, this connection is actually already beyond expression.
If this connection is strong, if the wish to attain Buddhahood for the sake of ALL is strong, then go for it.
If it is our deep wish to awaken, take whatever possibility to gain clarity there is available. We cannot have preferences or limitations then, but bow in genuine gratitude for each light given.
(If this feels difficult, then great to have guidance which is available and for which we are able to be open or receptive.)

Good luck, may you realize Buddha Nature and so help ALL. _/\_
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Karma Dorje » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:39 am

Justmeagain wrote:
heart wrote:Guru is actually much more important than school, it is a good thing to remember. But that doesn't mean you have to throw everything away that you already done.

/magnus
No of course not. What I have learned to date is of immeasurable value. I guess I feel uncomfortable looking to another Lama.....feel like having a mistress :shock:
Tsongkhapa himself had more than 50 teachers from various schools. How could it be wrong to follow great masters where you find them? Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche is a wonderful lama. There is no fault in making a connection with him in whatever way you can. As heart says, it's normal-- no big deal.

As you say, it would be difficult to follow his travel schedule and this is why so many of his teachings are webcast or recorded on DVD. You are no different in this than many of his students. Just make an effort to see him when it is possible and be conscious of the fact that you may need another lama that instructs you in a more intimate setting where you can ask questions and get advice and feedback. It would be very difficult to have that kind of relationship with DKR.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Ayu » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:23 am

An old lay Buddhist from my sangha, on his deathbed he gave us some advices. One I remember all the time, because I am quite shy when meeting a Lama.
He said: "Fling yourself at the Lamas, whenever you can! It is so precious to meet them." He explicitly spoke of them in plural.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by philji » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:44 am

Ayu wrote:An old lay Buddhist from my sangha, on his deathbed he gave us some advices. One I remember all the time, because I am quite shy when meeting a Lama.
He said: "Fling yourself at the Lamas, whenever you can! It is so precious to meet them." He explicitly spoke of them in plural.
But please don't become a dharma groupie as often seen in India and other places...

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Re: Following a new Lama

Post by Ayu » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:45 pm

philji wrote:
Ayu wrote:An old lay Buddhist from my sangha, on his deathbed he gave us some advices. One I remember all the time, because I am quite shy when meeting a Lama.
He said: "Fling yourself at the Lamas, whenever you can! It is so precious to meet them." He explicitly spoke of them in plural.
But please don't become a dharma groupie as often seen in India and other places...
What ist that, and how to avoid becomming one?
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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