An interesting quote from HHST

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smcj
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An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Tue May 17, 2016 5:36 pm

I found this interesting.
If you are in liberation, you cannot be active, you cannot help other beings. You yourself will be completely free from suffering but there is nothing you can do for others. By attaining Enlightenment, which we call the Great Liberation, you are not only free from suffering but you can also help all sentient beings immensely. That is the main difference.
- See more at:
http://www.hhthesakyatrizin.org/teach_i ... giWUg.dpuf
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm

Full enligthenment (non abiding, dwelling neither in Samsara or Nirvana) vs. Cessation.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Tue May 17, 2016 6:19 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Full enligthenment (non abiding, dwelling neither in Samsara or Nirvana) vs. Cessation.
Ok, so how is that helpful to others?

NB he equates Shravakayana liberation with cessation. That alone would be controversial at DhammaWheel.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue May 17, 2016 6:37 pm

smcj wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Full enligthenment (non abiding, dwelling neither in Samsara or Nirvana) vs. Cessation.
Ok, so how is that helpful to others?

NB he equates Shravakayana liberation with cessation. That alone would be controversial at DhammaWheel.
I'm 99.9% sure that's what he's talking about..not sure what your question on it is. The reason that's helpful to others is kind of at the heart of things "Buddha activity" which spontaneously benefits beings and all that. You don't get that when simply dwelling in the cessation of Nirvana, is the idea as I understand it. In short, it's the basic Mahayana presentation/criticism of Shravakayana's idea of enlightenment, Arhat vs. Bodhisattva etc. It also speaks to the idea (and this is emphasized in Sakya BTW) of the inseparability of Samsara and Nirvana, and that the final goal is not to dwell in either.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Tue May 17, 2016 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by BuddhaFollower » Tue May 17, 2016 6:41 pm

smcj wrote:NB he equates Shravakayana liberation with cessation. That alone would be controversial at DhammaWheel.
The people at Dhamma Wheel are ignorant about many things. They don't know about the Second Buddhist Council or other basic things.

Hinayana Nirvana is cessation. See for example here:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 60#p120910
Just recognize the conceptualizing mind.

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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by conebeckham » Tue May 17, 2016 6:55 pm

His Eminence Situ Rinpoche recently said pretty much the same thing, while teaching here in the Bay Area. Liberation from on'e own suffering is contradictory to the Bodhisattva Vow, and suffering is par for the course for Bodhisattvas, while only a Buddha can remain free from suffering and help others. To be a Buddha, in the Mahayana scheme of things, one must adopt the Bodhisattva activity, which entails accepting suffering.

I don't think this is a controversial position. (?)
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Tue May 17, 2016 6:57 pm

...not sure what your question on it is.
We are told to listen to the teachings, then contemplate them. In contemplating a teaching you endeavour to more fully understand what it means. I think it deserves further examination.
The reason that's helpful to others is kind of at the heart of things "Buddha activity" which spontaneously benefits beings and all that.
Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Tue May 17, 2016 7:06 pm

conebeckham wrote:...while only a Buddha can remain free from suffering and help others.

(edit)

I don't think this is a controversial position. (?)
It's not controversial at all. It's standard Dharma.
That does not mean it is properly understood.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by BuddhaFollower » Tue May 17, 2016 7:11 pm

smcj wrote: That does not mean it is properly understood.
You should read a basic book on Buddhism.

Such as the 2013 second edition of An Introduction to Buddhism by Harvey
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue May 17, 2016 7:19 pm

smcj wrote: We are told to listen to the teachings, then contemplate them. In contemplating a teaching you endeavour to more fully understand what it means. I think it deserves further examination.
IMO this one is pretty cut and dried.
]
Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?

I don't remember exactly, read the Uttaratantra, one of the Tathgatagarbha sutras or something, lol. Basically the idea is that what benefits beings arises spontaneously and leads beings to fruition, for the purpose of this conversation. Beyond that I don't remember the specific presentations, to be honest. The idea is, this can't happen with the knowledge obscurations in place that come from merely dwelling in Nrivana, so simply abiding in liberation makes this kind of Buddha activity not possible.

As I understand it, that is the gist of what HHST is saying.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by BuddhaFollower » Tue May 17, 2016 7:22 pm

smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?
Sambhogakaya is part of it.
Just recognize the conceptualizing mind.

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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Malcolm » Tue May 17, 2016 7:40 pm

smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?

Image
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by conebeckham » Tue May 17, 2016 8:07 pm

^, yeah, a normal Friday night for me.



:tongue:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue May 17, 2016 8:28 pm

Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?

Image
Yes, new avatar!
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Tue May 17, 2016 9:37 pm

Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?
Image
Evidently Malcolm doesn't like the subject. That tells me it must be interesting! :D

But seriously, has anyone actually studied the last chapter of the "Uttaratantra", or even read it?
Last edited by smcj on Tue May 17, 2016 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Malcolm » Tue May 17, 2016 9:44 pm

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?
Image
Evidently Malcolm doesn't like the subject. That tells me it must be interesting! :D
Image
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The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue May 17, 2016 10:29 pm

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: Ok, so then what is "Buddha Activity" ?
Image
Evidently Malcolm doesn't like the subject. That tells me it must be interesting! :D

But seriously, has anyone actually studied the last chapter of the "Uttaratantra", or even read it?

I read it once, and processed almost none of it. I might try again one day.

The beginning part with the similes on Buddhanature though, is one of my favorite things.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Tue May 17, 2016 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Malcolm » Tue May 17, 2016 10:38 pm

smcj wrote:
But seriously, has anyone actually studied the last chapter of the "Uttaratantra", or even read it?
Yes, of course.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by smcj » Wed May 18, 2016 3:27 am

Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote:
But seriously, has anyone actually studied the last chapter of the "Uttaratantra", or even read it?
Yes, of course.
Ok, great then. Since this is about a HHST quote in the Sakya forum, you've got the home court advantage. What is the gist of the Uttaratantra's last chapter? And then plugging that idea back into what HHST said, how should we understand it as something we should strive for?
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Re: An interesting quote from HHST

Post by Virgo » Wed May 18, 2016 3:56 am

Arhats are inactive but Buddhas can emanate countless forms to teach sentient beings and aid them in many ways.

Kevin

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