Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

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liuzg150181
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Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:59 pm

Hi,

As H.E. Jetsun Kusho Chimey Luding Rinpoche would be coming to my country Singapore to given empowerment, amongst which are Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini which pique my interest.

However,there is a daily commitment for Vajra Nairatmya short sadhana,and also Vajrayogini short sadhana daily commitment(if I opt for it after Vajra Nairatmya empowerment and also choose to follow the seven days teaching), I'd like to seek help and advice as to how long it takes for each of the sadhana.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:27 pm

At first it will take a while. After doing it for a year or so, you'll be able to do it pretty quick since you'll already know it.
you could probably run through it in five or ten minutes if you just hit the highlights and your quick with your mantra recitations.
And of course the sadhanas only work if we actually do them.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by kirtu » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:52 pm

liuzg150181 wrote: ...and also Vajrayogini short sadhana daily commitment
VY takes about 20 minutes.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:35 am

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.
Also,if for some reason I didn't perform my daily commitment(unable to do so due to illness,too busy or forgetfulness),what do I to remedy it? Perform more sadhana practices when I am more free?

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:44 am

Yes and there is a few places in the sadhana to do purification.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:32 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:Yes and there is a few places in the sadhana to do purification.
I see. Thanks. :anjali:
A few more questions that previously slipped my thoughts:
For mantra accumulation of Body Mandala, does it include daily practice,or only those done during retreat counts?
And is there any time period/frame that I need to complete the mantra accumulation within?

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:38 am

Would this be Naro Khachö, Indrabhuti, or Maitripa Vajrayogini?
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:51 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Would this be Naro Khachö, Indrabhuti, or Maitripa Vajrayogini?
Good question,though I have no idea since it is not stated on the program list. :shrug:
PS:You are a Drikungpa? Can't wait for Garchen Rinpoche's arrival in Singapore

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by Palzang Jangchub » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:40 am

liuzg150181 wrote:
Karma Jinpa wrote:Would this be Naro Khachö, Indrabhuti, or Maitripa Vajrayogini?
Good question,though I have no idea since it is not stated on the program list. :shrug:
You might be able to tell which one from the image on the flyer (if there is one), based on her pose, the presence/absence of a sow's head and its placement, etc. it's probably Naro Khachö, since that's the main form in Sakya. Can someone who commented on the time it takes to practice the sadhana (Kirt, Fortyeightvows) confirm/deny this?

In case you're interested, here's a short biography of Jamyang Khyentse Wangchuk, whose teachings on Vajrayogini will be given by H.E. Jetsün Kusho Chimey Luding Rinpoche after the initial jinlab: http://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/ ... gchuk/2338
PS: You are a Drikungpa? Can't wait for Garchen Rinpoche's arrival in Singapore
Yeah. Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche was in Singapore last July to help give Monkey Year Teachings and lead the 100 million Amidewa Retreat alongside HH Drikung Kyabgön Chetsang Rinpoche.

Were you able to go to that, by chance? Still looking for someone who has audio/notes/transcripts of the teachings on both the Fivefold Mahamudra and the new ngöndro text composed by Garchen Rinpoche himself... If you or anyone you know have this, please PM me!

Rinpoche has a center there called Drigar Thubten Dargye Ling, and the Mahasiddha Garchen Teaching Preservation Project is based in Singapore, too.
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:34 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:
liuzg150181 wrote:
Karma Jinpa wrote:Would this be Naro Khachö, Indrabhuti, or Maitripa Vajrayogini?
Good question,though I have no idea since it is not stated on the program list. :shrug:
You might be able to tell which one from the image on the flyer (if there is one), based on her pose, the presence/absence of a sow's head and its placement, etc. it's probably Naro Khachö, since that's the main form in Sakya. Can someone who commented on the time it takes to practice the sadhana (Kirt, Fortyeightvows) confirm/deny this?

In case you're interested, here's a short biography of Jamyang Khyentse Wangchuk, whose teachings on Vajrayogini will be given by H.E. Jetsün Kusho Chimey Luding Rinpoche after the initial jinlab: http://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/ ... gchuk/2338
PS: You are a Drikungpa? Can't wait for Garchen Rinpoche's arrival in Singapore
Yeah. Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche was in Singapore last July to help give Monkey Year Teachings and lead the 100 million Amidewa Retreat alongside HH Drikung Kyabgön Chetsang Rinpoche.

Were you able to go to that, by chance? Still looking for someone who has audio/notes/transcripts of the teachings on both the Fivefold Mahamudra and the new ngöndro text composed by Garchen Rinpoche himself... If you or anyone you know have this, please PM me!

Rinpoche has a center there called Drigar Thubten Dargye Ling, and the Mahasiddha Garchen Teaching Preservation Project is based in Singapore, too.
Hard to tell,the brochure does not divulge anything abt the type of Varjrayogini being transmitted:
http://www.sakyatenphelling.org/program ... etsuma.pdf
Though based on what little research I had done,it should be Naro Khachö.
Ah, thanks for the info on Jamyang Khyentse Wangchuk.
Didn't the the event last year though,but had went to the centre you had mentioned. Also visited two other Drikung centres in Singapore.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by Kunga » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:35 am

It's Naropa's Dakini.

Timings depend on how long you accumulate mantras / practice completion . Short sadhana is easily done within 5-10 mins if you're quick. Long sadhana can be done in less than 20.

First you have to do the 2 or 3 month retreat and accumulate 444,000 mantras using long sadhana. After that all mantras done in daily practice count towards the total commitment.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by PeterC » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:09 pm

liuzg150181 wrote:Hi,

As H.E. Jetsun Kusho Chimey Luding Rinpoche would be coming to my country Singapore to given empowerment, amongst which are Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini which pique my interest.

However,there is a daily commitment for Vajra Nairatmya short sadhana,and also Vajrayogini short sadhana daily commitment(if I opt for it after Vajra Nairatmya empowerment and also choose to follow the seven days teaching), I'd like to seek help and advice as to how long it takes for each of the sadhana.

Thanks in advance.

Both are very short practices if you do the short sadhana. Five minutes for Vajrayogini would require that you'd memorized the text and raced through it without doing many mantra recitations, but it's just about possible. It would be pretty hard to miss a day of this practice.

You don't have to receive the body mandala and consequent retreat commitment if you don't want to.

The seven-day teachings are both concise and complete and you'd be receiving them from a very important lineage holder. So if you're inclined to go, I'd very much recommend it. Feel free to PM me if you'd lie to discuss.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Thanks,both Kunga and PeterC for providing advices.
Kunga wrote:It's Naropa's Dakini.

Timings depend on how long you accumulate mantras / practice completion . Short sadhana is easily done within 5-10 mins if you're quick. Long sadhana can be done in less than 20.

First you have to do the 2 or 3 month retreat and accumulate 444,000 mantras using long sadhana. After that all mantras done in daily practice count towards the total commitment.
Due to a very work-centric culture and environment in Singapore,it is unlikely for me to do so.
However,the local Sakya centre(actually more of a full-fledged temple) hold a full-day week-long Vajrayogini retreat from time to time,supervised by eminent Sakya rinpoches.
Btw do you mean the mantra count commitment,say Body Mandala,only counts after first retreat?
PeterC wrote:

Both are very short practices if you do the short sadhana. Five minutes for Vajrayogini would require that you'd memorized the text and raced through it without doing many mantra recitations, but it's just about possible. It would be pretty hard to miss a day of this practice.

You don't have to receive the body mandala and consequent retreat commitment if you don't want to.

The seven-day teachings are both concise and complete and you'd be receiving them from a very important lineage holder. So if you're inclined to go, I'd very much recommend it. Feel free to PM me if you'd lie to discuss.
If that's the case,I shall attend the empowerment and teachings(for both short and long sadhanas),likely to take body mandala,but not sure about Uncommon Meditation Beyond Thought,is there any time limit to reach the mantra count commitment?

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by PeterC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:40 am

liuzg150181 wrote:Thanks,both Kunga and PeterC for providing advices.
Kunga wrote:It's Naropa's Dakini.

Timings depend on how long you accumulate mantras / practice completion . Short sadhana is easily done within 5-10 mins if you're quick. Long sadhana can be done in less than 20.

First you have to do the 2 or 3 month retreat and accumulate 444,000 mantras using long sadhana. After that all mantras done in daily practice count towards the total commitment.
Due to a very work-centric culture and environment in Singapore,it is unlikely for me to do so.
However,the local Sakya centre(actually more of a full-fledged temple) hold a full-day week-long Vajrayogini retreat from time to time,supervised by eminent Sakya rinpoches.
Btw do you mean the mantra count commitment,say Body Mandala,only counts after first retreat?
PeterC wrote:

Both are very short practices if you do the short sadhana. Five minutes for Vajrayogini would require that you'd memorized the text and raced through it without doing many mantra recitations, but it's just about possible. It would be pretty hard to miss a day of this practice.

You don't have to receive the body mandala and consequent retreat commitment if you don't want to.

The seven-day teachings are both concise and complete and you'd be receiving them from a very important lineage holder. So if you're inclined to go, I'd very much recommend it. Feel free to PM me if you'd lie to discuss.
If that's the case,I shall attend the empowerment and teachings(for both short and long sadhanas),likely to take body mandala,but not sure about Uncommon Meditation Beyond Thought,is there any time limit to reach the mantra count commitment?

The body mandala commitment is a retreat commitment. The uncommon beyond though meditation commitment is a mantra accumulation commitment that does not have to be done in retreat but you cannot begin accumulating until you have done the basic retreat. I think the commitment is to complete it within this lifetime, so there's no time limit. But not many people receive the uncommon beyond thought meditation compared to the body mandala.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by PeterC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:45 am

liuzg150181 wrote:Thanks,both Kunga and PeterC for providing advices.
Kunga wrote:It's Naropa's Dakini.

Timings depend on how long you accumulate mantras / practice completion . Short sadhana is easily done within 5-10 mins if you're quick. Long sadhana can be done in less than 20.

First you have to do the 2 or 3 month retreat and accumulate 444,000 mantras using long sadhana. After that all mantras done in daily practice count towards the total commitment.
Due to a very work-centric culture and environment in Singapore,it is unlikely for me to do so.
However,the local Sakya centre(actually more of a full-fledged temple) hold a full-day week-long Vajrayogini retreat from time to time,supervised by eminent Sakya rinpoches.
Btw do you mean the mantra count commitment,say Body Mandala,only counts after first retreat?

The body mandala retreat is supposed to be done in one go in a traditional sealed retreat. Don't think accumulating in a series of separate retreats would normally be an option

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:01 am

PeterC wrote:
The body mandala retreat is supposed to be done in one go in a traditional sealed retreat. Don't think accumulating in a series of separate retreats would normally be an option
Had searched and read old posts here and it seems you are right,I also emailed the local Sakya to see if they host the retreat in Singapore,or else I might need to travel overseas.
Uhm,some thought I had in mind,what is the consequence of not being able to meet the commitment requirement,say due to sudden health condition or even mortality?

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by PeterC » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:59 am

liuzg150181 wrote:
PeterC wrote:
The body mandala retreat is supposed to be done in one go in a traditional sealed retreat. Don't think accumulating in a series of separate retreats would normally be an option
Had searched and read old posts here and it seems you are right,I also emailed the local Sakya to see if they host the retreat in Singapore,or else I might need to travel overseas.
Uhm,some thought I had in mind,what is the consequence of not being able to meet the commitment requirement,say due to sudden health condition or even mortality?
You go to the hell realms immediately for a thousand endless kalpa, of course :)

The way it was explained to me was that it simply would be of no benefit to receive the body mandala if you did not intend to do the basic retreat. Those were the words used and I'm not going to add my own interpretation. But i would say that (a) you should genuinely intend to do it at some point in the foreseeable future if you want to receive it; and (b) you can still do all the rest of the practices, including completion stage, without the body mandala. A lot of people receive the teachings on that basis, and I've had confirmation from Sakya lamas that there's nothing wrong with doing that.

My personal view - don't receive the body mandala if you aren't planning on doing the retreat, it can only degrade your samaya. Just receive the rest and do the practice diligently. These teachings are given fairly regularly, and if it becomes an important personal practice you can always find a way to receive the body mandala and do the retreat at a later date.

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:28 pm

PeterC wrote:
liuzg150181 wrote:
PeterC wrote:
The body mandala retreat is supposed to be done in one go in a traditional sealed retreat. Don't think accumulating in a series of separate retreats would normally be an option
Had searched and read old posts here and it seems you are right,I also emailed the local Sakya to see if they host the retreat in Singapore,or else I might need to travel overseas.
Uhm,some thought I had in mind,what is the consequence of not being able to meet the commitment requirement,say due to sudden health condition or even mortality?
You go to the hell realms immediately for a thousand endless kalpa, of course :)

The way it was explained to me was that it simply would be of no benefit to receive the body mandala if you did not intend to do the basic retreat. Those were the words used and I'm not going to add my own interpretation. But i would say that (a) you should genuinely intend to do it at some point in the foreseeable future if you want to receive it; and (b) you can still do all the rest of the practices, including completion stage, without the body mandala. A lot of people receive the teachings on that basis, and I've had confirmation from Sakya lamas that there's nothing wrong with doing that.

My personal view - don't receive the body mandala if you aren't planning on doing the retreat, it can only degrade your samaya. Just receive the rest and do the practice diligently. These teachings are given fairly regularly, and if it becomes an important personal practice you can always find a way to receive the body mandala and do the retreat at a later date.
I was expecting the helm realm answer when I asked lol.
I am actually wanting to do the retreat,though what my previous question meant is that what would happen if I intent to do the retreat,but something unexpected and sudden stop me from doing so,like accidental death(touch wood!).
Anyway,I have already received the local centre's reply,and it seems that the local Sakya centre doesn't host the retreat,but allows us to set our retreat time by doing at home,monastery or mountain(uh,Singapore has no mountains,only hills). It sounds like they give some leeway to the retreat requirement,knowing that Singapore culture is pretty work-centric.
Btw is the mantra commitment referring to the short mantra? I think I should be able to complete it on early May the commitment for mantra,by taking leaves to focus nothing but the body mandala mantra practice. Though I think I need to put in at least 17hrs a day just for mantra chanting,which means it can only leave my time for basic daily functions and minimum amount of sleep. :rolleye:

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by PeterC » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:24 am

Just received an email saying that the visit is cancelled due to HEJK's health. Let us hope she recovers quickly. Perhaps there is a message here for you...

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Re: Time taken for short sadhana for Vajra Nairatmya & Vajrayogini

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:06 pm

PeterC wrote:Just received an email saying that the visit is cancelled due to HEJK's health. Let us hope she recovers quickly. Perhaps there is a message here for you...
Yes,I had also the notification from the local Sakya centre abt it,hope she recovers well and soon.
Perhaps,now is not yet the time to receive the empowerment......

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