Alayavijnana As Construct

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maximohudson
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Alayavijnana As Construct

Post by maximohudson » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 am

[Mod note: Topic moved from Sakya forum to Mahayana Buddhism forum where it looks to be a better fit.]

Statement: Habitual actions result in conditioned responses. Our almalgamation of conditioned responses is that which we label a personality. Habitual actions also result in predilections. This process can be observed in both humans and other animals. It also explains discernible personality traits and abilities observed in infancy and/or early youth for those who believe in rebirth. No non-observable mechanism is needed to explain this process as the cause and effect of repetitive action (karma) and conditioning can be readily observed. My contention therefore is that Alayavijnana is a archaic mind construct which attempts to explain how this conditioning takes place. It was developed before the advent of modern scientific instruments and procedures which allow us to know EXACTLY how connitioning works. Today we can view Alayavijnana as an early construct designed to explain something unknown. In this sense it can be compared to a geocentric model of the solar system to explain the rotation and orbit of the earth or the caves of wind the ancient Greeks believed to cause earthquakes.

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Wayfarer
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Re: Alayavijnana As Construct

Post by Wayfarer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:03 am

So you're here to critique Yogacara Buddhism on the basis of scientific naturalism?
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki-roshi

krodha
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Re: Alayavijnana As Construct

Post by krodha » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:06 am

maximohudson wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 am
My contention therefore is that Alayavijnana is a archaic mind construct which attempts to explain how this conditioning takes place.
Of course it is a construct, and the construct works, so whether it is deemed "archaic" or not is irrelevant.
maximohudson wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 am
It was developed before the advent of modern scientific instruments and procedures which allow us to know EXACTLY how connitioning works.
Modern science has no clue how conditioning works in this context, nor is it concerned with soteriology i.e., a means to uproot the species of conditioning in question.
maximohudson wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 am
Today we can view Alayavijnana as an early construct designed to explain something unknown. In this sense it can be compared to a geocentric model of the solar system to explain the rotation and orbit of the earth or the caves of wind the ancient Greeks believed to cause earthquakes.
The ālayavijñāna does not explain anything "unknown", it is merely a model that accounts for the cause of affliction, the means by which affliction perpetuates itself and can be exhausted in certain Buddhist systems.

Modern science is great for the empirical measurement of phenomena, but falls flat on its face when attempting to account for subjective processes and the nature of the mind in its coarse and subtle expressions.

Most modern scientists are physicalists and materialists. Inferior world views in the eyes of the buddhadharma.

ItsRaining
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Re: Alayavijnana As Construct

Post by ItsRaining » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:06 am

maximohudson wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 am
Statement: Habitual actions result in conditioned responses. Our almalgamation of conditioned responses is that which we label a personality. Habitual actions also result in predilections. This process can be observed in both humans and other animals. It also explains discernible personality traits and abilities observed in infancy and/or early youth for those who believe in rebirth. No non-observable mechanism is needed to explain this process as the cause and effect of repetitive action (karma) and conditioning can be readily observed. My contention therefore is that Alayavijnana is a archaic mind construct which attempts to explain how this conditioning takes place. It was developed before the advent of modern scientific instruments and procedures which allow us to know EXACTLY how connitioning works. Today we can view Alayavijnana as an early construct designed to explain something unknown. In this sense it can be compared to a geocentric model of the solar system to explain the rotation and orbit of the earth or the caves of wind the ancient Greeks believed to cause earthquakes.

The karmic seeds in the Alaya doesn't just condition our responses. It forms the worlds which beings reside in and in some cases like hell, even illusionary (though not to its inhabitants) beings are formed that punish the denizens of that realm, also events we encounter can be a result of karma as well as he location/condition of birth. So unless habitual actions we committed as an infant results in a world popping out in front of me then it doesn't really replace the necessity of the Alaya.

Alaya is also posited to explain continuity though life and rebirth and the connection between the various consciousnesses.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Alayavijnana As Construct

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:47 am

Alayavijnana is the space in which all constructs, including behavioral tendencies, arise.
Your description of the mental process itself isn't faulty, but your contention is misplaced.
You could just as easily argue that your own objection is meaningless because it's all made up in your head.
But your understanding of alayavijnana, your argument, and your contention,
as well as the moment when you are not thinking about them whatsoever
all occur within the expanse of alayavijnana.
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