Refuge and practice from other religions
Refuge and practice from other religions
Hi!
Anybody knows if there are any restrictions to
practicing meditations from, for example, Shaivism, if
one has taken refuge with a Lama?
If one is aware of the 'ultimateness' of buddhist refuge, and if Shiva is sometimes regarded as a protector of
dharma in Buddhism, is it 'breaking' the Refuge if someone is practicing a
meditation with Om Namah Sivaya and a Siva Lingam, etc.?
I have read or heard some possible contradictory information, so I
wanted to check.
Thanks,
cheers!
Anybody knows if there are any restrictions to
practicing meditations from, for example, Shaivism, if
one has taken refuge with a Lama?
If one is aware of the 'ultimateness' of buddhist refuge, and if Shiva is sometimes regarded as a protector of
dharma in Buddhism, is it 'breaking' the Refuge if someone is practicing a
meditation with Om Namah Sivaya and a Siva Lingam, etc.?
I have read or heard some possible contradictory information, so I
wanted to check.
Thanks,
cheers!
- Tsongkhapafan
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
If you take refuge in the Three Jewels, why would you want to practise something that isn't Buddhism? Taking refuge in Shiva is breaking the refuge commitment.Lobsang wrote:Hi!
Anybody knows if there are any restrictions to
practicing meditations from, for example, Shaivism, if
one has taken refuge with a Lama?
If one is aware of the 'ultimateness' of buddhist refuge, and if Shiva is sometimes regarded as a protector of
dharma in Buddhism, is it 'breaking' the Refuge if someone is practicing a
meditation with Om Namah Sivaya and a Siva Lingam, etc.?
I have read or heard some possible contradictory information, so I
wanted to check.
Thanks,
cheers!
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
According to the logic given by Pabhongkha himself, if you regard Shiva [or insert worldly deity here] as a Buddha, then it there is no problem with taking refuge in him.Tsongkhapafan wrote:
If you take refuge in the Three Jewels, why would you want to practise something that isn't Buddhism? Taking refuge in Shiva is breaking the refuge commitment.
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Thank you both very much!
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
So, it is like this:
There is a practice called Shiva yoga, where a practitioner looks at
the reflection of a candle light on a lingam that is put in front of one's eyes.
The purpose of it is to purify the energy, awaken the third eye and fill the aura with light and see the
things with a proper perspective. The Shiva mantra is used while looking at it (Om Namah Shivaya).
The logic is that the lingam has electromagnetic properties
(being made od certain materials) and then, in interaction with the
energies of the brow chakra of the practitioner, the transformation happens.
The mantra removes the mental distractions, that's the purpose, and helps in concentration.
My motivation would be to:
1 improve eyesight
and secondarily to:
2 improve concentration
3 purify mental energies.
There is no special philosophy in the practice, and it is
how I received it from a teacher ('just do that, third eye opens, you purify and
you're more in the pure energy', approximately).
If I take refuge in the Three Jewels before doing that practice, does that make anything different?
There is a practice called Shiva yoga, where a practitioner looks at
the reflection of a candle light on a lingam that is put in front of one's eyes.
The purpose of it is to purify the energy, awaken the third eye and fill the aura with light and see the
things with a proper perspective. The Shiva mantra is used while looking at it (Om Namah Shivaya).
The logic is that the lingam has electromagnetic properties
(being made od certain materials) and then, in interaction with the
energies of the brow chakra of the practitioner, the transformation happens.
The mantra removes the mental distractions, that's the purpose, and helps in concentration.
My motivation would be to:
1 improve eyesight
and secondarily to:
2 improve concentration
3 purify mental energies.
There is no special philosophy in the practice, and it is
how I received it from a teacher ('just do that, third eye opens, you purify and
you're more in the pure energy', approximately).
If I take refuge in the Three Jewels before doing that practice, does that make anything different?
- Tsongkhapafan
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
That's clearly not the case from Lobsang's description of the practice and Shiva is not a Buddhist deity.Malcolm wrote:According to the logic given by Pabhongkha himself, if you regard Shiva [or insert worldly deity here] as a Buddha, then it there is no problem with taking refuge in him.Tsongkhapafan wrote:
If you take refuge in the Three Jewels, why would you want to practise something that isn't Buddhism? Taking refuge in Shiva is breaking the refuge commitment.
What you've said is also incorrect, you can only take refuge in an enlightened being or an emanation of one. You can't impute Buddha on a worldly deity as that's like imputing wine on water, there's no valid basis of imputation.
Last edited by Tsongkhapafan on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Tsongkhapafan
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- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
There are many Buddhist practices to accomplish the goals you wish for, why would you rely on a Hindu practice if you are a Buddhist?Lobsang wrote:So, it is like this:
There is a practice called Shiva yoga, where a practitioner looks at
the reflection of a candle light on a lingam that is put in front of one's eyes.
The purpose of it is to purify the energy, awaken the third eye and fill the aura with light and see the
things with a proper perspective. The Shiva mantra is used while looking at it (Om Namah Shivaya).
The logic is that the lingam has electromagnetic properties
(being made od certain materials) and then, in interaction with the
energies of the brow chakra of the practitioner, the transformation happens.
The mantra removes the mental distractions, that's the purpose, and helps in concentration.
My motivation would be to:
1 improve eyesight
and secondarily to:
2 improve concentration
3 purify mental energies.
There is no special philosophy in the practice, and it is
how I received it from a teacher ('just do that, third eye opens, you purify and
you're more in the pure energy', approximately).
If I take refuge in the Three Jewels before doing that practice, does that make anything different?
Even if this practice were to work, it would involve developing faith in Shiva and Buddha didn't teach taking refuge in Shiva.
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Thank you for your answers.Tsongkhapafan wrote:
There are many Buddhist practices to accomplish the goals you wish for, why would you rely on a Hindu practice if you are a Buddhist?
Even if this practice were to work, it would involve developing faith in Shiva and Buddha didn't teach taking refuge in Shiva.
To improve eyesight also? Without initiation, etc.?
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Hahahaha, well, I have news for you TKF, that is exactly what Pabhongkha in fact says.Tsongkhapafan wrote: You can't impute Buddha on a worldly deity....
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Yeah, also, I have one more question, there
are mantras, for example, the Samjnaya mantra from the Golden Light sutra,
that invoke 'Hindu' deities (Brahma, Indra), wouldn't that be also countering the Refuge?
are mantras, for example, the Samjnaya mantra from the Golden Light sutra,
that invoke 'Hindu' deities (Brahma, Indra), wouldn't that be also countering the Refuge?
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
No, they are Lokapālas, mundane protectors of Dharma. Also "Brahma" and "Indra" are really more postions of devas than individual devas.Lobsang wrote:Yeah, also, I have one more question, there
are mantras, for example, the Samjnaya mantra from the Golden Light sutra,
that invoke 'Hindu' deities (Brahma, Indra), wouldn't that be also countering the Refuge?
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
But I have read similar of Ganesh, Saraswati and Shiva also....
Also, some mantras invoke the planetary deities, etc....
Also, some mantras invoke the planetary deities, etc....
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Can you give the quote please? I'm sure that's not the case.Malcolm wrote:Hahahaha, well, I have news for you TKF, that is exactly what Pabhongkha in fact says.Tsongkhapafan wrote: You can't impute Buddha on a worldly deity....
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Yes, it requires initiation because it's the practise of Tantra.Lobsang wrote:Thank you for your answers.Tsongkhapafan wrote:
There are many Buddhist practices to accomplish the goals you wish for, why would you rely on a Hindu practice if you are a Buddhist?
Even if this practice were to work, it would involve developing faith in Shiva and Buddha didn't teach taking refuge in Shiva.
To improve eyesight also? Without initiation, etc.?
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Which one is it?
I have some initiations, so
maybe it's the same deity.
I have found a practice from FPMT of Avalokitesvara.
I have some initiations, so
maybe it's the same deity.
I have found a practice from FPMT of Avalokitesvara.
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Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
very interesting and it helps explain some things.Malcolm wrote:. Also "Brahma" and "Indra" are really more postions of devas than individual devas.
May I ask how you discovered this?
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
It's the practice of Vajra recitation from Highest Yoga Tantra.Lobsang wrote:Which one is it?
I have some initiations, so
maybe it's the same deity.
I have found a practice from FPMT of Avalokitesvara.
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Om Ah Hum, or something else?
- Tsongkhapafan
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- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am
Re: Refuge and practice from other religions
Yes, that's right.Lobsang wrote:Om Ah Hum, or something else?