Lay Vows

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Lobsang Chojor
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Lay Vows

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:35 pm

Hi DW,

I would like to know if there are any requirements of taking lay vows as a gelugpa.

And if there are any rules on meditation shawls and clothing. As I'm a bit confused after reading about this on New Buddhist, http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/6857/zen-shawl
Well, they all can support that function, but the striped shawl is an indicator of the wearer holding a certain set of vows.
There are similar garments that are worn by lay vow-holders in other traditions as well.
:namaste:
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

jmlee369
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by jmlee369 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:42 am

Other than taking refuge and having a commitment to take the vows for life, there aren't any requirements that I know of (basically knowing what you're getting yourself into). Refuge and lay vows are not lineage specific either, they are the basic gateway to entering the Buddhadharma. When speaking of lay vows, I'm assuming you're referring to the five precepts, of which you can choose however many you wish to uphold at the time.

Lay practitioners don't have any particular clothing in the tradition at any level of practice. Looking at the lay lamas in the tradition (all former monastics) should give you an idea. E.g Gelek Rimpoche, Dagyab Rinpoche, Khyongla Rato Rinpoche.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:20 am

Many thanks jmlee369 :smile:

I will speak to a local lama about taking refuge formally. :namaste:
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

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Ayu
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:08 pm

I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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kirtu
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by kirtu » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:36 pm

Manjushri Fan wrote: And if there are any rules on meditation shawls and clothing. As I'm a bit confused after reading about this on New Buddhist, http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/6857/zen-shawl
Well, they all can support that function, but the striped shawl is an indicator of the wearer holding a certain set of vows.
There are similar garments that are worn by lay vow-holders in other traditions as well.
The stripped zen is mostly worn in Nyingma and various Kagyu lineages by people holding vows beyond that of refuge and the five basic vows. Typically these are referred to a ngakpa vows although there may be other vows as well. This is not common is Sakya (although I know one person who *DID* take these vows from a Sakya lama and *DID* wear his zen to a teaching by HH Sakya Trizen). I have never seen anyone wear the zen in a Gelug context but I am almost never in an exclusively Gelug setting.
I would like to know if there are any requirements of taking lay vows as a gelugpa.
You do need to take refuge and the five lay vows formally if you have not done so.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

ngodrup
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by ngodrup » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:16 pm

You become a Buddhist layperson.
Period. No pre requisites.

There is no specific gelug, nyingma, kagyu, etc. lay person.
If you wish to take Bodhisattva vows you may, then you are
a mahyayana Buddhist.

There is such as thing as a robed genyen in some traditions.

The gray or white skirt, uncut hair, striped zen is reserved
for Buddhist practitioners who have taken HYT empowerments
or Maha/Anu yoga empowerments in the nyingma system.
Typically they will have completed ngondros, a deity or two,
or a three year retreat. Such people are have made specific
promises to their root lama and have permission to wear Heruka
costume of the deities. Such ngakpas typicaly have high respect
in their communities.

Although this ngakpa appearance is not tradition in the gelug,
one or two life long practitioners who are not monastics have
been authorized by their root Lama to dress in this manner
as an indication that they are permitted to function as a Lama.
I think Dr. Berzin is granted that entitlement by HH the Dalai Lama.

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kirtu
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by kirtu » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:35 pm

ngodrup wrote: Such ngakpas typicaly have high respect
in their communities.
However many people I see wearing the stripped zen are playing dress up instead of being even good practitioners.

I do not mean to impune the ngakpas that you (ngodrup) describe (or people who may actually lack the highest behavior but have proper view and who moving in the right direction). The high standards you describe are important.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

ngodrup
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by ngodrup » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:02 am

Kirt:
"However many people I see wearing the stripped zen
are playing dress up instead of being even good practitioners."

It is true. Many people look like practitioners but aren't
and vice versa. Quite sadly so. I am reporting what my teachers
have do and how I advise dharma friends who wish to wear robes
in the shrine room-- which is customary in my community.

My teachers said: "Don't brag by what you wear" also
"don't wear what you are not entitled to based on level of
practice and permission." In Bhutan, for example, the white
or gray skirt is *actually* reserved. That is a fact. Robe wearing
is a discipline.

antiquebuddhas
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Re: Lay Vows

Post by antiquebuddhas » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:31 pm

Ayu wrote:Maybe interesting in this context:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav ... 79529.html
Quite amazing sites.
Had been searching such for some times.
I had to look quite carefully.

Thanks :anjali:
"Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared." Lord Buddha

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