Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

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Nicholas Weeks
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Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:42 am

The Chinese said that religion is poison. However, in the beginning they said that if you can practice Dharma without having to rely on other people for food or clothing, then you can practice. They said you’re a parasite if you have to live off the food of others, so many people decided that the practice called “taking the essence” – chulen – (which didn’t require any food) was the best option and aimed to live in retreat in mountain hermitages.

To do chulen you need to get instructions, proper instructions. At the beginning I didn’t get the instruction, but at last, after requesting so many times, some of us received the instruction and I did the retreat for three months.

I wanted to continue this practice for my whole life. The practice went well and I felt a lot of energy and mindfulness. But after three months the Chinese came and said that doing this retreat was actually a criticism of the Chinese government. They said that doing this meditation was a disgrace to the nation and that we were giving the message that the government couldn’t provide for us – in essence that we were putting the Chinese down, that it was a subtle form of revolution. So we had to stop doing the chulen practice.

There are three kinds of chulen: flower chulen, stone chulen and water chulen. With flower chulen, there is a pill composed of many different kinds of flowers; you take three pills: one in the morning, one at lunch and one at night. That is all you eat, and it is sufficient. Then, when you get used to it, one pill is enough. And when you’re totally used to that, you don’t need to eat at all – you just use the visualization and absorb the elements directly into yourself. The energy itself is sufficient to sustain you.

When you do chulen you generate yourself as the deity, then you take the pill and you visualize taking the essence of the five elements – earth, air, fire, water and space. You absorb the essence of them into yourself. By doing this you don’t have to rely on any raw food at all.
For Dharma practitioners, doing a chulen retreat helps you not waste time. You don’t waste time gathering the food together and cooking it, which means you have more free time to practice Dharma, especially when you go do retreat in a cave. You don’t need to rely on a benefactor to sponsor the food. And moreover it makes your mind extremely clear. It helps the energy in the meditation. The secondary benefit is that it prolongs your lifespan and it reduces your gray hair and wrinkles. It also makes your face and body more beautiful.

The best benefit is that these days we are accumulating so many negative actions with regards to food – attachment, killing, so many negative actions – and with chulen, all of this stops.
Excerpt From: Mandala magazine. “The Stories and Words of Great Buddhist Masters, Volume 1.
Distrust everyone in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Nietzsche

Kim
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Kim » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:34 am

Who can learn this? From whom?
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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maybay
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by maybay » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:50 pm

Your samatha meditation must be very stable for this practice.
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Kim » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:12 pm

maybay wrote:Your samatha meditation must be very stable for this practice.
Do you know the practice first hand? "Very stable" meaning what? Some measures about the shamatha requirement?
Nicholas Weeks wrote: The best benefit is that these days we are accumulating so many negative actions with regards to food – attachment, killing, so many negative actions – and with chulen, all of this stops.
If I had an opportunity to learn this I'd put it to action. However, I'm afraid it is not taught 1. publicly, 2. without knowing the lama very well. It's one of those topics, among many other, which are only hushed about.
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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maybay
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by maybay » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:04 pm

And for good reason. If you do it incorrectly you might just cause drought or famine. As a function of humility and renunciation it is wholesome, but of stinginess and self-loathing it is destructive.

http://www.lionsroar.com/the-nine-stage ... -the-mind/
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by jmlee369 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:10 am

Lama Yeshe Wisdom Archive offers the perhaps the most detailed public information regarding the practice, but the information and accounts of student's experiences should reinforce the need for guidance. http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/taking-essence

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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Kim » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:20 am

maybay wrote:And for good reason. If you do it incorrectly you might just cause drought or famine. As a function of humility and renunciation it is wholesome, but of stinginess and self-loathing it is destructive.

http://www.lionsroar.com/the-nine-stage ... -the-mind/
So... Are you saying that one should have attained perfect shamatha, the ninth stage, to be fit to learn chulen?
jmlee369 wrote:Lama Yeshe Wisdom Archive offers the perhaps the most detailed public information regarding the practice, but the information and accounts of student's experiences should reinforce the need for guidance. http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/taking-essence
Oh yeah. Thanks!
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Kim » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:35 pm

jmlee369 wrote:Lama Yeshe Wisdom Archive offers the perhaps the most detailed public information regarding the practice, but the information and accounts of student's experiences should reinforce the need for guidance. http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/taking-essence
Copied from the above text:

11. HH the 14th Dalai Lama’s kundalini energy.
12. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
13. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.

To what does "kundalini energy" here refer to? To a charge of spiritual energy given or infused to an item by the recipient?
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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maybay
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by maybay » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:18 pm

Kim wrote:
maybay wrote:And for good reason. If you do it incorrectly you might just cause drought or famine. As a function of humility and renunciation it is wholesome, but of stinginess and self-loathing it is destructive.

http://www.lionsroar.com/the-nine-stage ... -the-mind/
So... Are you saying that one should have attained perfect shamatha, the ninth stage, to be fit to learn chulen?
When Lama Choden explained it to me I took him to mean that it would simply not be effective without stable meditation. So if you're serious about the practice you might as well get your meditation up to scratch first.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Malcolm
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:06 pm

maybay wrote:And for good reason. If you do it incorrectly you might just cause drought or famine.
Ridiculous.
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maybay
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by maybay » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:21 am

Malcolm wrote:
maybay wrote:And for good reason. If you do it incorrectly you might just cause drought or famine.
Ridiculous.
Good to hear it.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Ayu
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Ayu » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:54 pm

Off topic posts about rhino horn went here: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 70#p351422
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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:43 pm

Before we were gross physical human beings..we were beings of light, that did not need to sustain on gross food......neither did we have organs for elimination.....so the finer we get...the less gross food we need to survive....

(My take on this, through what i have read....)

Right now i am taking chlorella...which is a superfood...and sustainable....i will see how far i can go...i just started it this morning...it will be a tapering off for me (along with fruit & water) ....doing it more to lose weight.....
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:20 am

Quick question about the pill, Lama Yeshe says it contains:
2. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Ling Rinpoche.
3. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.
...
5. Thubten Yeshe’s Hayagriva nectar.
...
11. HH the 14th Dalai Lama’s kundalini energy.
12. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
13. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
Does anyone know what they are?
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

jmlee369
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by jmlee369 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:07 am

Lobsang Chojor wrote:Quick question about the pill, Lama Yeshe says it contains:
2. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Ling Rinpoche.
3. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.
...
5. Thubten Yeshe’s Hayagriva nectar.
...
11. HH the 14th Dalai Lama’s kundalini energy.
12. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
13. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
Does anyone know what they are?
The inner offering nectar refers to either the inner offering pill itself or the tea into which the inner offering pill was dissolved. The Hayagriva nectar coul be a number of different substances used in Hayagriva practice, but my guess is that it's either a portion of the many medicinal nectar offerings made on the shrine during the practice or the pills that are made and blessed through the extensive practice of Hayagriva, probably from Sera Je. As for the kundalini energy, I have no idea.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Choden Rinpoche on Chulen

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:35 am

jmlee369 wrote:
Lobsang Chojor wrote:Quick question about the pill, Lama Yeshe says it contains:
2. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Ling Rinpoche.
3. Inner offering nectar from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.
...
5. Thubten Yeshe’s Hayagriva nectar.
...
11. HH the 14th Dalai Lama’s kundalini energy.
12. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
13. Kyabje Ling Rinpoche’s kundalini energy.
Does anyone know what they are?
The inner offering nectar refers to either the inner offering pill itself or the tea into which the inner offering pill was dissolved. The Hayagriva nectar coul be a number of different substances used in Hayagriva practice, but my guess is that it's either a portion of the many medicinal nectar offerings made on the shrine during the practice or the pills that are made and blessed through the extensive practice of Hayagriva, probably from Sera Je. As for the kundalini energy, I have no idea.
:thanks: I'll ask my Geshe about Kundalini energy when he's back from India.
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

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