Empowerments

Justmeagain
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Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 12:33 pm

Hi,

Does anyone know of any Heruka Vajrayogini Empowerment's scheduled in the UK this coming year?

Thanks...

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Mantrik
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Mantrik » Sun May 21, 2017 1:57 pm

FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Justmeagain
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 2:04 pm

Mantrik wrote:FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.
Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sun May 21, 2017 2:45 pm

FPMT don't have any visiting teachers this year. I know FPMT Jamyang Leeds has requested Dagri Rinpoche to teach here again, but nothing about what or when.

I can't see anything at Samye Ling, although there are other kagyu organisations in the UK
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

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Mantrik
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Mantrik » Sun May 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Justmeagain wrote:
Mantrik wrote:FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.
Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.
You asked. It was fair to assume you did not therefore know about those three conduits.

Perhaps next time tell us what you already know.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Justmeagain
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Justmeagain wrote:
Mantrik wrote:FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.
Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.
You asked. It was fair to assume you did not therefore know.

Perhaps next time tell us what you already know.
Sorry but I am not getting drawn into your frame of reference. I asked if anyone could enlighten me regarding empowerment's - not for a personal take on another tradition or its validity - both of which I am sure contravene T&C's.

Can we leave this old, battered, chestnut alone now?

In the meantime, thank you for your reply.

Justmeagain
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 2:54 pm

Lobsang Chojor wrote:FPMT don't have any visiting teachers this year. I know FPMT Jamyang Leeds has requested Dagri Rinpoche to teach here again, but nothing about what or when.

I can't see anything at Samye Ling, although there are other kagyu organisations in the UK

Thanks,

I'll have a search and maybe email them individually.

Best wishes,

_/|\_

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Mantrik
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Mantrik » Sun May 21, 2017 3:00 pm

My pleasure.

You seem to be looking for new teachers etc. so perhaps entering an HYT commitment with a new Lama may be better left until after a relationship has been formed?

From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Justmeagain
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 3:02 pm

Mantrik wrote:My pleasure.

You seem to be looking for new teachers etc. so perhaps entering an HYT commitment with a new Lama may be better left until after a relationship has been formed?

From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.
Thanks,

I wonder if extensive previous retreats may be factored in. We'll see...

_/|\_

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sun May 21, 2017 3:30 pm

Justmeagain wrote:Thanks,

I'll have a search and maybe email them individually.

Best wishes,

_/|\_
You're welcome, has this practice been recommended to you?
Justmeagain wrote:
Mantrik wrote:From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.
Thanks,

I wonder if extensive previous retreats may be factored in. We'll see...

_/|\_
FPMT just require that you have some experience with tantra, or at least that's what was required for last years empowerment.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

Justmeagain
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Justmeagain » Sun May 21, 2017 8:38 pm

Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.

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Josef
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Josef » Sat May 27, 2017 6:09 pm

Justmeagain wrote:Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.
Yes. And oral instructions.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Grigoris
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Grigoris » Sat May 27, 2017 6:56 pm

Josef wrote:
Justmeagain wrote:Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.
Yes. And oral instructions.
And lots of preliminaries.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:23 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Josef wrote:
Justmeagain wrote:Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.
Yes. And oral instructions.
And lots of preliminaries.
Not necessarily, but maybe, ideally!More so when it comes to Gelug! But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so. I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

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Grigoris
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Nyedrag Yeshe wrote:But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so.
Really? Do you have a scriptural source to back this claim? I would be very interested to see it. Thanks.
I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!
Who said anything about ngondro "as we know today"? Tummo requires purification of the channels. If you do not engage in "preliminary" purification practices...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Nyedrag Yeshe wrote:But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so.
Really? Do you have a scriptural source to back this claim? I would be very interested to see it. Thanks.
I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!
Who said anything about ngondro "as we know today"? Tummo requires purification of the channels. If you do not engage in "preliminary" purification practices...
Tsongkhapa's point is that although the Six Yogas are a synthesis of elements
from diverse tantric sources, their foundation is the first of them, the doctrine of
the inner heat yoga. In turn, the inner heat doctrine is drawn from two sources,
namely, the Hevajra and Chakrasamvara tantric cycles. Because the inner heat
doctrine is identical in the two systems, initiation into either system is valid as a
basis for practicing the Six Yogas. Tsongkhapa then proceeds to discuss the
various lines of transmission that he considers to be the most authoritative.
In this you are being more clear and specific, and I thinkg we agree. In fanct, Tsongkhapa mentions only Vajrasattva and Guru Yoga as preliminaries for Six Yogas .
http://promienie.net/images/dharma/book ... s_6yon.pdf
Look for the chapter 'The Tantric Preliminaries Unique to the Six Yogas System'
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

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conebeckham
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Re: Empowerments

Post by conebeckham » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:33 pm

There are a bunch of "ngondro" texts or liturgies for various lineages of Naro Cho Druk, actually...they all have four thoughts, refuge, bodhicitta, mandala, VS purification, and of course guru yoga liturgies.

But it's also said that yidam practice, and specifically at least a 5 deity mandala, is an essential preliminary, and that one needs the complete empowerments, and the approach and accomplishment practices should be done. Most folks do a Demchok 5 deity mandala, or Hevajra's 9 deity, but there are other possibilities as well. Phagmo is also very important in most Naro Cho Druk practices, as well. Gelukpas who practice Naro Cho Druk rely on the Ghantapada 5 deity mandala, most often, I think.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:07 am

conebeckham wrote:There are a bunch of "ngondro" texts or liturgies for various lineages of Naro Cho Druk, actually...they all have four thoughts, refuge, bodhicitta, mandala, VS purification, and of course guru yoga liturgies.

But it's also said that yidam practice, and specifically at least a 5 deity mandala, is an essential preliminary, and that one needs the complete empowerments, and the approach and accomplishment practices should be done. Most folks do a Demchok 5 deity mandala, or Hevajra's 9 deity, but there are other possibilities as well. Phagmo is also very important in most Naro Cho Druk practices, as well. Gelukpas who practice Naro Cho Druk rely on the Ghantapada 5 deity mandala, most often, I think.
In fact many Gelug lamas will ask beforehand, as a prerequisite for any HYT empowerments, one to complete at least one set of ngondro accumulations such as prostrations etc. But as I said, I doubt practitioners in older times would have completed a very 'rigid' ngondro as we know today before ever beginning, with the two stages as an staple preliminary! Besides also of course Guru Yoga and Vajrasattva as Lama Tsongkhapa says in the text!
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

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conebeckham
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Re: Empowerments

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:14 am

Yes, a "ngondro" prior to kyerim and dzokrim was not a requirement until fairly recently, in any lineage. But a full yidam sadhana usually had a complete ngondro as part of the recitation, in Sarma traditions which is where Naro Cho Druk comes from. And there is additionally "ngondro" specific to Six Yogas, regardless of yidam sadhana.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: Empowerments

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:19 am

conebeckham wrote:Yes, a "ngondro" prior to kyerim and dzokrim was not a requirement until fairly recently, in any lineage. But a full yidam sadhana usually had a complete ngondro as part of the recitation, in Sarma traditions which is where Naro Cho Druk comes from. And there is additionally "ngondro" specific to Six Yogas, regardless of yidam sadhana.
I recall a text that I read somewhere, that Marpa might have given to Milarepa difficult tasks, like building and rebuilding towers ,as a 'preliminary'. It makes sense to me. In fact any Dharma practice done with the proper motivation and devotion may become a good preliminary! :namaste:
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

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