Empowerments

[Justmeagain]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any Heruka Vajrayogini Empowerment's scheduled in the UK this coming year?

Thanks...

[Mantrik]

FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.

[Justmeagain]

FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.

Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.

[Lobsang Chojor]

FPMT don't have any visiting teachers this year. I know FPMT Jamyang Leeds has requested Dagri Rinpoche to teach here again, but nothing about what or when.

I can't see anything at Samye Ling, although there are other kagyu organisations in the UK

[Mantrik]

FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.

Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.

You asked. It was fair to assume you did not therefore know about those three conduits.

Perhaps next time tell us what you already know.

[Justmeagain]

FPMT is your best bet, but I can't see any listed.

A certain cult gives this quite often in the UK but those giving the empowerments are not qualified to do so.

Kagyu organisations are also worth checking out for opportunities. Samye Ling may be able to help.

Good grief! I am aware of both those conduits.

Any comments without the sounds of a grinding axe would be welcome.

You asked. It was fair to assume you did not therefore know.

Perhaps next time tell us what you already know.

Sorry but I am not getting drawn into your frame of reference. I asked if anyone could enlighten me regarding empowerment's - not for a personal take on another tradition or its validity - both of which I am sure contravene T&C's.

Can we leave this old, battered, chestnut alone now?

In the meantime, thank you for your reply.

[Justmeagain]

FPMT don't have any visiting teachers this year. I know FPMT Jamyang Leeds has requested Dagri Rinpoche to teach here again, but nothing about what or when.

I can't see anything at Samye Ling, although there are other kagyu organisations in the UK

Thanks,

I'll have a search and maybe email them individually.

Best wishes,

_/|\_

[Mantrik]

My pleasure.

You seem to be looking for new teachers etc. so perhaps entering an HYT commitment with a new Lama may be better left until after a relationship has been formed?

From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.

[Justmeagain]

My pleasure.

You seem to be looking for new teachers etc. so perhaps entering an HYT commitment with a new Lama may be better left until after a relationship has been formed?

From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.

Thanks,

I wonder if extensive previous retreats may be factored in. We'll see...

_/|\_

[Lobsang Chojor]

Thanks,

I'll have a search and maybe email them individually.

Best wishes,

_/|\_

You're welcome, has this practice been recommended to you?

From memory, I think the FPMT does require some preliminary retreat as well, so if you have not already done so, such a retreat could be time well spent until the empowerment becomes available.

Thanks,

I wonder if extensive previous retreats may be factored in. We'll see...

_/|\_

FPMT just require that you have some experience with tantra, or at least that's what was required for last years empowerment.

[Justmeagain]

Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.

[Josef]

Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.

Yes. And oral instructions.

[Grigoris]

Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.

Yes. And oral instructions.

And lots of preliminaries.

[Nyedrag Yeshe]

Interesting, I'll drop them a line.

I see there are some Yogis that practice Tummo but mention nothing re an empowerment. Is a HYT empowerment required to practice Tummo?

Thanks again.

Yes. And oral instructions.

And lots of preliminaries.

Not necessarily, but maybe, ideally!More so when it comes to Gelug! But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so. I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!

[Grigoris]

But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so.

Really? Do you have a scriptural source to back this claim? I would be very interested to see it. Thanks.

I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!

Who said anything about ngondro "as we know today"? Tummo requires purification of the channels. If you do not engage in "preliminary" purification practices...

[Nyedrag Yeshe]

But the only true requirements is empowerment and one's teacher persmission to do so.

Really? Do you have a scriptural source to back this claim? I would be very interested to see it. Thanks.

I doubt many older tummo practictioners have "completed" ndgondro as we know today before enganging in practice!

Who said anything about ngondro "as we know today"? Tummo requires purification of the channels. If you do not engage in "preliminary" purification practices...

Tsongkhapa's point is that although the Six Yogas are a synthesis of elements
from diverse tantric sources, their foundation is the first of them, the doctrine of
the inner heat yoga. In turn, the inner heat doctrine is drawn from two sources,
namely, the Hevajra and Chakrasamvara tantric cycles. Because the inner heat
doctrine is identical in the two systems, initiation into either system is valid as a
basis for practicing the Six Yogas. Tsongkhapa then proceeds to discuss the
various lines of transmission that he considers to be the most authoritative.

In this you are being more clear and specific, and I thinkg we agree. In fanct, Tsongkhapa mentions only Vajrasattva and Guru Yoga as preliminaries for Six Yogas .
http://promienie.net/images/dharma/book ... s_6yon.pdf
Look for the chapter 'The Tantric Preliminaries Unique to the Six Yogas System'

[conebeckham]

There are a bunch of "ngondro" texts or liturgies for various lineages of Naro Cho Druk, actually...they all have four thoughts, refuge, bodhicitta, mandala, VS purification, and of course guru yoga liturgies.

But it's also said that yidam practice, and specifically at least a 5 deity mandala, is an essential preliminary, and that one needs the complete empowerments, and the approach and accomplishment practices should be done. Most folks do a Demchok 5 deity mandala, or Hevajra's 9 deity, but there are other possibilities as well. Phagmo is also very important in most Naro Cho Druk practices, as well. Gelukpas who practice Naro Cho Druk rely on the Ghantapada 5 deity mandala, most often, I think.

[Nyedrag Yeshe]

There are a bunch of "ngondro" texts or liturgies for various lineages of Naro Cho Druk, actually...they all have four thoughts, refuge, bodhicitta, mandala, VS purification, and of course guru yoga liturgies.

But it's also said that yidam practice, and specifically at least a 5 deity mandala, is an essential preliminary, and that one needs the complete empowerments, and the approach and accomplishment practices should be done. Most folks do a Demchok 5 deity mandala, or Hevajra's 9 deity, but there are other possibilities as well. Phagmo is also very important in most Naro Cho Druk practices, as well. Gelukpas who practice Naro Cho Druk rely on the Ghantapada 5 deity mandala, most often, I think.

In fact many Gelug lamas will ask beforehand, as a prerequisite for any HYT empowerments, one to complete at least one set of ngondro accumulations such as prostrations etc. But as I said, I doubt practitioners in older times would have completed a very 'rigid' ngondro as we know today before ever beginning, with the two stages as an staple preliminary! Besides also of course Guru Yoga and Vajrasattva as Lama Tsongkhapa says in the text!

[conebeckham]

Yes, a "ngondro" prior to kyerim and dzokrim was not a requirement until fairly recently, in any lineage. But a full yidam sadhana usually had a complete ngondro as part of the recitation, in Sarma traditions which is where Naro Cho Druk comes from. And there is additionally "ngondro" specific to Six Yogas, regardless of yidam sadhana.

[Nyedrag Yeshe]

Yes, a "ngondro" prior to kyerim and dzokrim was not a requirement until fairly recently, in any lineage. But a full yidam sadhana usually had a complete ngondro as part of the recitation, in Sarma traditions which is where Naro Cho Druk comes from. And there is additionally "ngondro" specific to Six Yogas, regardless of yidam sadhana.

I recall a text that I read somewhere, that Marpa might have given to Milarepa difficult tasks, like building and rebuilding towers ,as a 'preliminary'. It makes sense to me. In fact any Dharma practice done with the proper motivation and devotion may become a good preliminary!