Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Locked
User avatar
liuzg150181
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:41 am

Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by liuzg150181 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:10 pm

Just as one thinks the successions of scandals hitting TB couldn't come at an more 'opportune' timing,this one is a lot crazier :shock: :
https://ladakh2017blog.wordpress.com/20 ... jin-gebis/

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3716
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by Adamantine » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:37 am

That's really quite crazy. I know nothing of Buddhism in Taiwan or "Bliss and Wisdom" specifically but it sounds like there's a LOT of money behind them and if this is all true it's a very deeply sad and disturbing situation. It's also written in quite a convoluted way, are there any other sources for this history?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

ItsRaining
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 am

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by ItsRaining » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:51 am

Tibetan Buddhism already has a low rep among a lot of Chinese and Taiwanese people... This probably isn't going to help.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15172
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:10 am

So, is the teacher the sole bearer of responsibility here too? :tongue:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

MiphamFan
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by MiphamFan » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:29 am

Just seems like one of many Chinese cults. How is the Dalai Lama involved in any of it?

rasputinsaurus
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:35 am

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by rasputinsaurus » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:38 am

This group, Bliss and Wisdom, setup their training centre in Prince Edward Island in Canada and had caused local residents to be curious and suspicious with them. Now the fully story is unfolding before their eyes.

https://maisonneuve.org/article/2013/06 ... come-town/

rasputinsaurus
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:35 am

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by rasputinsaurus » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:48 am

The Master of this group Bliss and Wisdom, Master Jih Chang passed away in 2004, recognized Dalai Lama as his Guru and dedicated the group to study Gelug Buddhism, that is how Dalai Lama comes into the scene. Bliss and Wisdom still officially claims to be a group studying Gelug Buddhism, takes Dalai Lama as the highest Guru and moral authority.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by jkarlins » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:30 pm

Whoah what a buncha kooks.

MiphamFan
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by MiphamFan » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:13 pm

The Dalai Lama gives teachings to thousands of people.

If someone goes to MIT and ends up committing terrorist acts it doesn't mean MIT is responsible for his acts.

ludomuno
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by ludomuno » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:58 pm

It's a great pity because the founder of Bliss and Wisdom in Taiwan, Master Jih-Chang, was a devoted student of the Dalai Lama and tried to promote Tibetan Buddhism in Taiwan.....and eventually, China. That's where he got into trouble - a former cult leader on the run, Mary Jin, sees her chance, seduces and deceives the monks under Jih-Chang, and eventually enthrones herself as the "guru". In the years since then, she's been quietly breaking away from the Dalai Lama. In 2008, Bliss and Wisdom stopped organizing trips to Dharamshala for the Dalai Lama's teachings. Lamas linked to the Chinese Panchen, like Harwa Rinpoche, are playing a larger and larger role in Bliss and Wisdom instead. The Ganden Tripas give teachings to Bliss and Wisdom in Taiwan every year, but they've never publicly spoken to Mary Jin, and have little direct administrative influence on the organization. On the other hand, Mary Jin and the monks closest to her consult Harwa Rinpoche on many administrative decisions.

narraboth
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by narraboth » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:13 pm

I am from Taiwan and I heard about this for actually quite several years.

Basically the whole story is: Ven. Jih Chang was a Chinese/Taiwanese monk, who got interest in Lamrim Chenmo by Je Dzongkapa, and decided to promote this great book in Taiwan. He did it quite successfully in Chinese Buddhist enviornment, built up a huge Buddhist group, including a monk monastery (where many monks got Gelung vows from HHDL), a lay people sangha with many small subgroups in University and different counties, a fundation with quite a lots of donation and money involved, a business selling organic food which profit 'supposedly' to support sangha. The group also spread to mainland China.

Ven. Jih Chang gave seminars and 'talked about' Lamrim Chenmo in Taiwan and China, however he did not really fully receive the 'tri lung' (explaination lineage) from Gelung lama, he did visit India and spent a short time with some Gelug masters but probably didn't learn systematically. According to other Gelug students back home, his 'explanation' on the text was quite different in style compared to traditional Gelug teachings.

Anyway, 2002-2004, his health turned bad when he mostly stayed in China. It is said that he starts to trust in this lay woman, Ms Jin. Actually some people suggested that he believed that Ms Jin was the incarnation of mkhas-grub rje and she told Ven. Jih Chang that he was rgyal tshab rje :shrug: :thinking: That might be a rumor but apparently information shows that he was convinced that Ms Jin has some very special qualities, and should lead the whole group after he passed. He also reportedly recommended Ms Jin to HHDL twice and apparently HH did not like the idea too much.

Nevertheless, Ms Jin got the control after Ven Jih Chang passed, and lots problems generated about vows (between her and male monks) and money.... It has been in question for a while but recently it has been raised to HHDL again, so now the whole thing are under spotlight again.

(well, de javu)
-------------------

Just two small comments:
1. I don't know why 福智 was translated as 'Bliss and Wisdom', it should really be 'merit and wisdom'. 福 is not really bliss in almost any context in Chinese. But if that's how this group decided to name itself in English so be it.
2. Taiwan and China are actually two most vivid place for religion and especially Tibetan Buddhism. Huge interest, huge devotion, and also of course, huge money involved. I do agree Buddhist teaching should be introduced based on local culture and interest, but when it comes to real Buddhist study, 'volk religion' style of promotion has its limit..., you really need good reading and logical thinking to go further, otherwise it's just so vulnearble and easily being used.

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6789
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by Ayu » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Are there any sources that are more diverse?
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

narraboth
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by narraboth » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Ayu wrote:Are there any sources that are more diverse?
Quite some, but all in Chinese language....
Fu-Je ('Bliss' and Wisdom) has published several statements on their website
http://www.blisswisdom.org/statement/1854-1006
if you can read Chinese. But don't worry if you can't, it doesn't really say much. It simply say that the monks are under summer vassa/varsa period so can not respond to questions about misbehaviours.

I personally met two Taiwanese dharma friends in Dharmsala 7 years ago when I traveled there for a week, one was a monk then (not anymore now) and one already left monastry at that time learning Thangka painting. All are very nice people. The stories I heard from them was rather outrageous. I almost cried when they told me how the teenage monks was given very poor food in the monastry, when I knew FJ's organic shops sold stuffs with very high price and gained good profit.

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 6789
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Crazy scandal somewhat related to Gelug hitting Taiwan......

Post by Ayu » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:35 am

The discussion in this topic mainly has been kept alive artificially by a person with two accounts discussing with themselves. Those posts have been removed.
I locked the thread in order to discourage such troll postings.

If anybody wants to add anything substancial, please contact the mod staff and ask to unlock the thread.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests