The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

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greenvajrapani27
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The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by greenvajrapani27 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:27 am

Came across this Wikipedia article.
It's about a Mongolian Dharmapala that the 5th Dalai Lama composed invocations to.
Here's the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayisun_Tngri
Here's the quote
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Dayisun Tngri
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Daichsun Tngri, also known as Dayisud Tngri and Dayičin Tngri, is a Mongolian war god "of a protective function"[1] to whom captured enemies were sometimes sacrificed.[2] One of the equestrian deities within the Mongolian pantheon of 99 tngri, Dayisun Tngri may appear as a mounted warrior.[2] Some of his characteristics may be the result of the "syncretistic influence of Lamaism" (Tibetan Buddhism); the fifth Dalai Lama composed invocations to this deity.[2]
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FYI

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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:35 am

Very cool- thanks.

Also, Welcome to dharmawheel!

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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Ayu » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:05 pm

Quote from that article:
This article relating to a myth or legend from Asia is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 pm

greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:27 am
Came across this Wikipedia article.
It's about a Mongolian Dharmapala that the 5th Dalai Lama composed invocations to.
Here's the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayisun_Tngri
Here's the quote
Quote
Dayisun Tngri
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
Daichsun Tngri, also known as Dayisud Tngri and Dayičin Tngri, is a Mongolian war god "of a protective function"[1] to whom captured enemies were sometimes sacrificed.[2] One of the equestrian deities within the Mongolian pantheon of 99 tngri, Dayisun Tngri may appear as a mounted warrior.[2] Some of his characteristics may be the result of the "syncretistic influence of Lamaism" (Tibetan Buddhism); the fifth Dalai Lama composed invocations to this deity.[2]
Unquote
FYI
Are you sure the 5th Dalai Lama wrote an invocation to him as a dharmapala? If so, that's quite insulting to their culture.
It's a sort of Buddhist arrogance trampling on indigenous cultures. They even dumped the Gyalpo on the Mongolians for good measure.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by practitioner » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:58 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 pm

Are you sure the 5th Dalai Lama wrote an invocation to him as a dharmapala? If so, that's quite insulting to their culture.
It's a sort of Buddhist arrogance trampling on indigenous cultures. They even dumped the Gyalpo on the Mongolians for good measure.
I mean, you must have a pretty big problem with Padmasambhava then as well I imagine.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:13 pm

practitioner wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:58 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 pm

Are you sure the 5th Dalai Lama wrote an invocation to him as a dharmapala? If so, that's quite insulting to their culture.
It's a sort of Buddhist arrogance trampling on indigenous cultures. They even dumped the Gyalpo on the Mongolians for good measure.
I mean, you must have a pretty big problem with Padmasambhava then as well I imagine.
When it comes to deities, it is the norm to declare the deities of any supplanted culture as inferior. However, I think it was troublesome spirits Guru Rinpoche was mainly concerned with, and was invited after all. I've no illusions about ancient Zhang Zhung, Tibet or Mongolia as gentle pastures of pleasure and harmony. ;)
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:47 pm

I don't think Guru Rinpoche only enrolled "troublesome" spirits into the ranks of Buddhist Protectors. What about Tsheringma and Her Four Sisters (Tshering Ched-nga) or Yudronma and Her 11 Sisters (Ten-ma Chu-nyi)? I can think of all sorts of local spirits in Tibet Who became Protectors of Buddhism or Guardians of this or that Lama/Yogi.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:55 pm

In my experience, Tibetan Lamas are continuing this tradition here in North Ameirca. Namkha Drimed Rinpoche has identified and written sol-khas for at least two N.A. Nagas. Tulku Sang-ngak Rinpoche has identified and enrolled the spirit of Mt. Shasta. Lama Dawa Chodrak identified and enrolled both the Goddess of the Mississippi in the U.S. and Popocatepetl near Puebla, Mexico. My Teacher's wife met the spirits residing on Mt. Katadin in Maine. These are just the ones that come immediately to mind. I'm sure there are a number of others. I've even heard a Tibetan Lama say that we (meaning Norte Americanos) should be actively trying to contact and identify the local spirits and local power spots.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:01 pm

I mena isn't that kinda normal for us buddhists to do? We do it in our pujas all the time We make friends out of local protectors and deities. And when they don't wanna be friends we use the power of yidam to subdue them.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:48 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 pm
Are you sure the 5th Dalai Lama wrote an invocation to him as a dharmapala? If so, that's quite insulting to their culture. It's a sort of Buddhist arrogance trampling on indigenous cultures. They even dumped the Gyalpo on the Mongolians for good measure.
It seems that those are the common ways that vajrayana buddhism deals with non-buddhist deities- they become 'protectors of the faith' or there is some story of the buddhist deity conquering and subduing them, etc.

Like, there is two ways to go-

choice 1. become a protector and get some tea sometimes, leftovers, etc.
choice 2. get portrayed as being trampled. (think of the implications of this to an indian)

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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:30 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:47 pm
I don't think Guru Rinpoche only enrolled "troublesome" spirits into the ranks of Buddhist Protectors. What about Tsheringma and Her Four Sisters (Tshering Ched-nga) or Yudronma and Her 11 Sisters (Ten-ma Chu-nyi)? I can think of all sorts of local spirits in Tibet Who became Protectors of Buddhism or Guardians of this or that Lama/Yogi.
Guess it depends how you define 'troublesome' with respect to Guru Rinpoche's view of the deities/spirits. You can befriend beings to head off trouble, you can conquer them or appease them etc.
But 'mainly' was my vaguery to avoid being dogmatic about it. It is hard to be firm about the status of beings in other cosmologies as deities or spirits or protectors, and as we know even in Vajrayana you find, for example, Mahakala as Yidam and as Dharmapala. Additonal to that, in Mongolia the indigenous shamans use their spirits for battle between themselves so one's protector is another's aggressor.

I don't think a Darkhad shaman would take to kindly to some Buddhist Lama seeking to assert control over their lineage ongods. In some families there are now Lamas and Shamans.......... that makes for an interesting blend and over time there may be a symbiosis - them Ngakpas again, eh. :)

Major religions of the world all seem to have such processes for either absorbing the local deties as deities to be worshiped , subjugating them, demoting them, or eradicating their worship.
The kindest approach is indeed to recognise them wherever you are and include them in the most appropriate way. Nagas are a case in point, however they may be named locally.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:58 pm

I don't think "asserting control" is what we do most of the time when we enroll local spirits as our Protectors or Guardians. Most of the time, from what I've seen, it's just like making a new friend. You see someone you think you'd like to get to know. So you take them out to lunch or dinner. Turns out they have some special abilities and/or connections. So you continue to cultivate that friendship, communicating with them, making offerings to them on a daily basis. When necessary, you may ask your friend for some help. There are four Enlightened activities, and wrathful subjugation is the last resort if a spirit is making problems. Even then, it must be done with Bodhicitta.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:10 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:58 pm
I don't think "asserting control" is what we do most of the time when we enroll local spirits as our Protectors or Guardians. Most of the time, from what I've seen, it's just like making a new friend. You see someone you think you'd like to get to know. So you take them out to lunch or dinner. Turns out they have some special abilities and/or connections. So you continue to cultivate that friendship, communicating with them, making offerings to them on a daily basis. When necessary, you may ask your friend for some help. There are four Enlightened activities, and wrathful subjugation is the last resort if a spirit is making problems. Even then, it must be done with Bodhicitta.
That seems like an excellent way to behave, with respect and compassion.
Yes, all actions, even liberation, must always be compassionate.

I've never come across the word 'enrol' in that context before.
Is it a translation of a Tibetan term?
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:00 pm

Mantrik-la,

Sorry, my word.

But now that I'm here, very frequently, spirits come to Teachers/Yogis and make the first contact. That's what happened when Lama Dawa "met" and made friends with the Goddess of the Mississippi. Frequently when Lama Dawa went somewhere, there would be a light rain, sometimes with the sun still out. This is called mu-gu chab-pa, the rain of devotion. Lama Dawa's close attendant explained this was the local Nagas coming to welcome Lama Dawa.
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by Mantrik » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:56 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:00 pm
Mantrik-la,

Sorry, my word.

But now that I'm here, very frequently, spirits come to Teachers/Yogis and make the first contact. That's what happened when Lama Dawa "met" and made friends with the Goddess of the Mississippi. Frequently when Lama Dawa went somewhere, there would be a light rain, sometimes with the sun still out. This is called mu-gu chab-pa, the rain of devotion. Lama Dawa's close attendant explained this was the local Nagas coming to welcome Lama Dawa.
Wonderful. :)
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Re: The Mongolian Dharmapala "Dayisun Tngri"

Post by jmlee369 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:49 am

It's worth noting that the local gods themselves are active participants in the process, and can resist attempts to be assimilated into the Buddhist tradition if they wish. Several lamas in our time have been killed while trying to stop animal sacrifices in Himalayan regions, by having their cars run off cliffs or being thrown off horses. At other times, the deities possess villagers and try to negotiate or argue with the lama (sometimes they speak in a very archaic form of Tibetan unknown to the locals, and barely understood by the lamas).

Also reminds me of the case in Korea where a renowned abbot of a temple demolished the temple's local mountain god shrine and was promptly struck down with bloody diarrhoea for days until he confessed the deed and decided to rebuild the shrine.

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