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Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:24 am
by greenvajrapani27
There is a question that needs answering about this whole matter.

If the Nechung Oracle did in fact declare this woman to be the Mamaki Oracle, is she???

I have read that on many occasions in the past if a Tulku or Oracle stated that someone was an Oracle or Tulku that was all it took.

The Tibetan people and monks accepted it on face value.

The Tulku or Oracle were never questioned about it.

So if the Nechung Oracle says Yeye is Mamaki is the deal done?

Must we all now accept the Nechung Oracle's recognition of Yeye Omileye? :shrug:

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:29 am
by greenvajrapani27
Norwegian wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:20 pm
greenvajrapani27,

Your post and the way it was written led me to believe you supported the idea of there being a Mamaki oracle, so that's why I wrote the above.

I would be interested in hearing the response from the Office of the Dalai Lama and CTA's Department of Religion, if you ever do get one.
So Norwegian I hope this clears up any misunderstandings between us.
Indeed.
Yes, your key verse in your statement is very correct, "I would be interested in hearing the response from the Office of the Dalai Lama and CTA's Department of Religion, IF YOU EVER DO GET ONE. :rolling:

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:05 am
by Malcolm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:24 am
There is a question that needs answering about this whole matter.

If the Nechung Oracle did in fact declare this woman to be the Mamaki Oracle, is she???

I have read that on many occasions in the past if a Tulku or Oracle stated that someone was an Oracle or Tulku that was all it took.

The Tibetan people and monks accepted it on face value.

The Tulku or Oracle were never questioned about it.

So if the Nechung Oracle says Yeye is Mamaki is the deal done?

Must we all now accept the Nechung Oracle's recognition of Yeye Omileye? :shrug:
No.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:40 am
by greenvajrapani27
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:05 am
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:24 am
There is a question that needs answering about this whole matter.

If the Nechung Oracle did in fact declare this woman to be the Mamaki Oracle, is she???

I have read that on many occasions in the past if a Tulku or Oracle stated that someone was an Oracle or Tulku that was all it took.

The Tibetan people and monks accepted it on face value.

The Tulku or Oracle were never questioned about it.

So if the Nechung Oracle says Yeye is Mamaki is the deal done?

Must we all now accept the Nechung Oracle's recognition of Yeye Omileye? :shrug:
No.
Hello Malcolm

Could you please expand upon your answer.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm
by greenvajrapani27
Who was it who actually recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle?

If it wasn't the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden then was it Thubten Ngodrup the monk who is the Nechung Oracle?

If it was Thubten Ngodrup then he has a lot of explaining to do.

My bet is it wasn't Dorje Drakden who recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:47 pm
by heart
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm
Who was it who actually recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle?

If it wasn't the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden then was it Thubten Ngodrup the monk who is the Nechung Oracle?

If it was Thubten Ngodrup then he has a lot of explaining to do.

My bet is it wasn't Dorje Drakden who recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle.
This is truly a very uninteresting discussion. A oracle is just a doorway for a deity, in this case that new age woman is a doorway for water (as weird as that sounds).

Why don't you try to grab fire for your own oracle greenvajrapani27?

/magnus

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:02 pm
by humble.student
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:24 am
I have read that on many occasions in the past if a Tulku or Oracle stated that someone was an Oracle or Tulku that was all it took.
That's funny, Steven Seagal heard that rumour too.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:59 pm
by Malcolm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm
Who was it who actually recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle?

If it wasn't the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden then was it Thubten Ngodrup the monk who is the Nechung Oracle?

If it was Thubten Ngodrup then he has a lot of explaining to do.

My bet is it wasn't Dorje Drakden who recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle.
Mamaki cannot have an oracle. It's impossible.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 am
by greenvajrapani27
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:59 pm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm
Who was it who actually recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle?

If it wasn't the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden then was it Thubten Ngodrup the monk who is the Nechung Oracle?

If it was Thubten Ngodrup then he has a lot of explaining to do.

My bet is it wasn't Dorje Drakden who recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle.
Mamaki cannot have an oracle. It's impossible.
I agree with you fully Malcolm but the question I have is did the Nechung Oracle illegally make her an Oracle.

If the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden did not recognize this woman as Mamaki did the Nechung Oracle fake a trance and make her the Mamaki Oracle?

It appears that the Dalai Lama and the CTA were unaware of what the Nechung Oracle was doing.

There is money to be made in selling Tulku or Oracle titles.

It's happened in the past and it appears to continue in the present and will happen in the future.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 am
by Malcolm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:59 pm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 pm
Who was it who actually recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle?

If it wasn't the Dharmapala Dorje Drakden then was it Thubten Ngodrup the monk who is the Nechung Oracle?

If it was Thubten Ngodrup then he has a lot of explaining to do.

My bet is it wasn't Dorje Drakden who recognized Yeye Omileye as the Mamaki Oracle.
Mamaki cannot have an oracle. It's impossible.
I agree with you fully Malcolm but the question I have is did the Nechung Oracle illegally make her an Oracle.
Since the only report of this comes from this women, I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:17 am
by greenvajrapani27
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 am
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:59 pm


Mamaki cannot have an oracle. It's impossible.
I agree with you fully Malcolm but the question I have is did the Nechung Oracle illegally make her an Oracle.
Since the only report of this comes from this women, I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.
Malcolm can you explain the photo that you posted on April 14, 2018 of the Nechung Oracle together with the so Mamaki Oracle.

They are both seating about a foot away from each other with there eyes closed in prayer.

It was posted by you on this website regarding the "Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye".

Both are wearing formal Tibetan robes at the Nechung Monastery and the Mamaki Oracle is wearing an Oracle Mirror (Melong) on her chest and a Crown on her head.

The Melong she stated the Nechung Oracle got for her from Nepal and the Mamaki Crown that he got from Mongolia.

Here's the link.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=28332&hilit=mamaki&start=20

How do you interpret the meaning of this photo?

You stated that "I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.".

This is not how I interpret the meaning of this photo.

The smartest thing that Yeye did was document her "Ceremony" to show proof of what happened that day.

This is no longer a possible "he says, she says" debate.

This photo speaks a thousand words.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:55 am
by Malcolm
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:17 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 am
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 am


I agree with you fully Malcolm but the question I have is did the Nechung Oracle illegally make her an Oracle.
Since the only report of this comes from this women, I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.
Malcolm can you explain the photo that you posted on April 14, 2018 of the Nechung Oracle together with the so Mamaki Oracle.

They are both seating about a foot away from each other with there eyes closed in prayer.

It was posted by you on this website regarding the "Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye".

Both are wearing formal Tibetan robes at the Nechung Monastery and the Mamaki Oracle is wearing an Oracle Mirror (Melong) on her chest and a Crown on her head.

The Melong she stated the Nechung Oracle got for her from Nepal and the Mamaki Crown that he got from Mongolia.

Here's the link.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=28332&hilit=mamaki&start=20

How do you interpret the meaning of this photo?

You stated that "I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.".

This is not how I interpret the meaning of this photo.

The smartest thing that Yeye did was document her "Ceremony" to show proof of what happened that day.

This is no longer a possible "he says, she says" debate.

This photo speaks a thousand words.
That photo is from her website and that crown is just a standard five Buddha family crown. There is nothing special about it.
You are making something out of nothing.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:58 am
by PeterC
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:17 am
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 am
greenvajrapani27 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 am


I agree with you fully Malcolm but the question I have is did the Nechung Oracle illegally make her an Oracle.
Since the only report of this comes from this women, I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.
Malcolm can you explain the photo that you posted on April 14, 2018 of the Nechung Oracle together with the so Mamaki Oracle.

They are both seating about a foot away from each other with there eyes closed in prayer.

It was posted by you on this website regarding the "Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye".

Both are wearing formal Tibetan robes at the Nechung Monastery and the Mamaki Oracle is wearing an Oracle Mirror (Melong) on her chest and a Crown on her head.

The Melong she stated the Nechung Oracle got for her from Nepal and the Mamaki Crown that he got from Mongolia.

Here's the link.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=28332&hilit=mamaki&start=20

How do you interpret the meaning of this photo?

You stated that "I think we can chalk it up to her complete and total misunderstanding.".

This is not how I interpret the meaning of this photo.

The smartest thing that Yeye did was document her "Ceremony" to show proof of what happened that day.

This is no longer a possible "he says, she says" debate.

This photo speaks a thousand words.
No, not really.

A lama performed a ritual of some kind for her. The only information we have about the nature and intent of the ceremony, and the source of the objects used, comes from a woman who doesn't have a clue about the Buddhadharma and who can generously be described as a hustler.

We don't know what the ritual was, we don't know what the implements are or where they came from, and we don't know how much she paid to whom for the ceremony. She could have just dressed up and received a blessing.

Like Manuel in Fawlty Towers, we know nothing.

The Nechung Oracle is a monk of some experience and standing, and I very much doubt he would have done what this woman claims he did. But the only way to find out is to ask. I doubt you'll get a useful answer, though. I suspect that the office of the DL and other relevant bodies will consider the whole thing too silly to merit looking into it.

Re: The Dalai Lama has new Oracles

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:00 am
by Ayu
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:55 am
....
You are making something out of nothing.
This is my impression since post number one of this thread.

I would like to close this thread now. Many questions were answered thoroughly already. Please let those answers sink in instead of creating more wrong assumptions.

Thread locked until anybody has some new substantial information to add.