"One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

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"One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:17 am

I know very little about Hua Yen thought. This post in a different thread caught my eye and raised a question for those who have studied Hua Yen thought with care:
rory wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:55 pm

I think we might need to politely agree to disagree. From the time of Bodhidharma to the present, Ch'an/Zen has used the term "One Mind," regardless of its scriptural basis or lack thereof.
One Mind is explicitly Avatamsaka (Huayan, Kegon) philosophy:
Hua-yen thought sees all phenomena as expressions of an originally pure and undifferentiated one mind
J. Stone "Original Enlightenment" p. 7.

[/quote]

Is J Stone's description quoted above accurate, or is it just her way with words? more precisely: what is meant by "one mind" in that context? what characters are translated as "one mind"?

thanks


PS here's the context for the piece quoted above. thank you to rory for bringing it to light for the purpose of discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=24489&start=80#p435592

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:54 am

Still trying to dig out a reasonable Chinese translation for the idea as it's presented in English.
To give an idea how tricky this is....

一心
Basic Definition: One mind.
Senses:
- The mind as the most fundamental basis. The true thusness of all existence. 'One' means that the ordinary is one with the absolute. 'Mind' means 'certainty.' Also, the one consciousness that is the basis for all sentient beings. The absolute reality that is the basis for all phenomena in the universe. This concept is central to the Awakening of Faith 起信論, where the one mind is identified with the dharmakāya 法身 and dharmadhātu 法界 (Skt. svacitta-mātra; eka-agra; eka-citta; dhyāna). 〔起信論 T 1666.32.576a5〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura,Iwanami]

- To unify the mind; therefore, 'unity of the psyche' or 'concentration.' The mind concentrated on Amitâbha Buddha 阿彌陀 when praying to him. [Charles Muller]

- To concentrate the mind in the empowering sense of 'devotedly' or 'whole-heartedly,' without scattering. [Charles Muller]

- Attentively, carefully, considerately (Skt. sat-kṛtya; Pāli sakkaccaṃ). (T 1426.22.554c06). [Nyanatusita]
(Skt. cittaikâgratā; adhyāśaya, ananya-citta, *eka-cittena, ekaṃcittam, ekatracitte, ekâgra, ekâgra-citta, cittaikâgra, cittaikâgrya, prayata, prahitâtman, samādhi, samāhita, *smṛtimat) [Charles Muller; source(s): Hirakawa]

一心念
Basic Definition: to think with a concentrated mind
Senses:
- (Skt. ekâgra-citta, sam-anv-ā-√hṛ) 〔文殊師利問經 T 468.14.506c26〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Hirakawa]

一心三觀
Basic Definition: three insights in one thought
Senses:
- The three viewpoints in a single thought. A type of Tiantai 天台 meditation in which one views a phenomenon from three viewpoints within the same instant: (1) empty 空; being produced by various causes, it is in its essence devoid of any permanent existence and is therefore empty. (2) provisional 假; nevertheless, it does have a real, if only provisional, immediate existence. (3) the mean 中; since the phenomenon is a blending of both empty and provisional, it should be seen as occupying midway position between both poles. For the Tiantai follower, these three views are performed simultaneously within the same instant of thought, and hence are termed 'the integrated three views 圓融三觀' or 'the three views without sequence 不次第三觀.' Emptiness, nominal designation, and the mean indicate, respectively, the three aspects of phenomenon: its basic dependence upon conditions of causation, its temporary existence and its real nature. These three aspects cannot be independent of each other. This doctrine occupies a central position in the Tiantai school and is regarded as the ultimate teaching of the Buddha. Also written as 一心三智 and 不可思議三觀. 〔摩訶止觀 T 1911.46.55b19〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): JEBD]

一心妙戒抄
Basic Definition: Marvelous Precept of the One Mind
Senses:
- Isshin myōkai shō. A work by Gudō-bō Ejin 求道房惠尋 (?–1268) of the Kurotani (or Kurodani) branch 黑谷流 of Japanese Tendai 天台. Among Mt. Hieiʼs major scholarly trends, the most important single contribution to the restoration of the 'precepts for attaining sudden awakening preached in the perfect exoteric teaching' 圓頓戒 were seen in the works of Ejin and especially this text. The structure and contents of this work are said to be lacking in systematic form, but also clearly show that his thought and suggested practice were oriented toward restoring the precept for attaining sudden awakening at Mt. Hiei.

- With regard to the contents, isshin (the 'One Mind' or 'oneʼs own mind' ) 一心 in Tendai teaching is used, as in the case of 'contemplation of the three truths in oneʼs own mind' 一心三觀, in a context referring to the idea of embracing the entire phenomenal world and Buddhist teachings through the contemplation of a momentary activity of oneʼs own mind. In Ejin too, we can consider isshin to possess a similar meaning, but in addition, to directly relate isshin as the 'One Mind' to the notion of precepts 戒 and naming it isshin-kai 一心戒 (precept of the One Mind), which is generally assumed to express his own original way of thinking based on the conviction that the precept for attaining sudden awakening represents the pillar of the entire Buddhist doctrinal system.

- The contents of this work can be summarized in 10 points as follows:

1. With regard to the Three Disciplines 三學 of morality 戒, meditation 定, and wisdom 慧, Ejin says: "Among the three disciplines, that of the morality is fundamental." And with regard to the marvelous precepts for sudden awakening 圓頓妙戒, he says: "The One Mind 一心 is the most essential issue."

2. The marvelous precept to sudden awakening 圓頓妙戒 is the comprehensive entity of the One Mind 一心ノ惣體, and the essence of the precepts 戒體 is the very foundation 大地 of the two phenomena of meditation and wisdom 二法. Meditation and wisdom should be established only upon the essence of the precepts. In other words, the precept of the One Mind expresses the truth that the precept to sudden awakening is the very basis of the Buddhist path, i.e., the global entity of the One Mind.

3. The Marvelous Contemplation of the Middle Way 中道妙觀, whose true identity 正體 is to observe the precept to sudden awakening, is also the practice of śamatha-vipaśyanā 止觀, the most superior contemplation.

4. The 'essence of the precepts' 戒體, i.e., the 'unproduced-ness of the true nature of all phenomena and its temporary appearance in a tangible form' 性無作假色, is classified on the basis of the teaching of both the first 迹門 and second half 本門 of the Lotus Sutra. Here, the essence of the precept of sudden awakening is classified as 'the conditioned and ever-changing form of thusness' as shown at the stage of the originally awakened Buddha (in the second half of the Lotus Sutra) 本門位ノ隨緣眞如 and 'the essence of the precepts' 戒體 as 'the unproduced-ness of the true nature of all phenomena and its momentary appearance in a tangible form' 性無作假色 is situated at the stage of the Buddha as a 'visible trace' in this world, representing the pure, unstained, unchanging ninth consciousness 第九識 (thusness 眞如) that, depending on circumstances, appears in many phenomenal forms 事相. In other words, at the stage of the Buddha as a 'visible trace' in this world preached in the first half of the Lotus Sutra 迹門位, the 'essence of the precepts' 戒體 coincides with the unchanging thusness 不變眞如, i.e., the unconditioned 無爲, the true nature of all phenomena 性, the noumenon 理. On the other hand, the psychic phenomena of the mind as 'conditioned and ever-changing forms of thusness' 隨緣眞如 operate as conditioned phenomena 有爲, so that the One Mind 一心 can be redefined as a function of thusness that appears in many forms depending on worldly circumstances.

5. All phenomena belonging to the trichiliocosm 三千諸法 and the threefold contemplation in oneʼs own mind of emptiness 空, momentary appearance 假, and the middle way 中道 are each a single phenomenon produced in our own minds 心ノ一法 . In other words, all of them can be reduced to the One Mind because they represent nothing but a momentary instant of mental activity as a conditioned and ever-changing form of thusness 隨緣眞如ノ一念.

6. The One Mind is founded on the precept to sudden awakening. For this reason, it is called the 'precept of the One Mind' 一心戒. Moreover, by contemplating that thusness, i.e., the Buddhahood 佛性, appears in a conditioned and ever-changing form, a form possessing the concretely visible shape of the precepts 戒相 pursued by a practitioner, we can become aware that the very foundation of all Buddhist paths should be found in the precepts, including the precept to sudden awakening.

7. Based on such a view, Ejin redefines the threefold contemplation within oneʼs own mind as the marvelous contemplation 妙觀, based upon the precept of the One Mind.

8. The division of correct contemplation 正觀 and marvelous contemplation 妙觀 assumes that the first reveals the meaning of śamatha-vipaśyanā 止觀 and the second reveals the meaning of the threefold contemplation of emptiness 空, momentary appearance 假, and the middle way 中 in oneʼs own mind.

9. Ejin introduces two categories: 'revealing the originally attained state of awakening through abiding at the stage of the Buddha as a 'visible trace' in this world' 住迹顯本 and 'revealing the originally attained state of awakening at the stage of the originally awakened Buddha' 住本顯本. He then considers the correct contemplation to mean 'abiding at the stage of the Buddha as a 'visible trace' in this world' 住迹 and the fruit of its practice to be the Buddhahood shown at the same stage (in the first half of the Lotus Sutra). Next, he considers the marvelous contemplation to mean 'abiding at the stage of the originally awakened Buddha' 住本 and the fruit of its practice to be the Buddhahood shown at the same stage (in the second half of the Lotus Sutra).

10. If one relies on the precept of the One Mind, i.e., the mental activity based on the precept to sudden awakening, even the śamatha-vipaśyanā 止觀 can be turned into the marvelous contemplation 妙觀, the method of contemplation superior to all others.

- The expression isshin-kai as the precept of the One Mind probably derives from the Denjutsu Isshinkai-bun 傳述一心戒文 (Dengyō Daishi Zenshū 傳教大師全集, bekkan 別卷, p. 629–636) by Kōjō 光定 (779–854), often quoted by Ejin in the Isshin myōkai-shō. The meaning of isshin-kai in the work of Kōjō is also explained by quoting the Tendai bosatsukai-so 天台菩薩戒疎 (T 1812) by Mingkuang 明曠, a disciple of Zhanran, and the Dainichikyō-so 大日經疏 by Yixing 一行 (683–727), one of the eight patriarchs of the Shingon school who learned from Śubhakarasiṃha 善無畏 (637–735) and Vajrabodhi 金剛智 (669–741), so we can assume that the Isshin myōkai-shō also includes elements for a type of fusion of the esoteric teaching with the idea of precept for attaining sudden awakening preached in the 'perfect exoteric teaching' 圓頓戒 (see Terai Yoshinobu 寺井義宣, “Gudō-bō Ejin no Isshin Myōkai no Shisō” 求道房恵尋の「一心妙戒」の思想 (The Thought of the Perfect Precept on One Mind by Gudō-bō Ejin), Tendai Gakuhō 天台学報, N.39, Tendai Gakkai, Tōkyō, 1997, p.73–80) [Giglio Emanuele Davide]

三界唯一心
Basic Definition: the triple realm is nothing but the one mind
Senses:
- The triple world is but one mind. This expression is commonly seen in Chan texts, but originally comes out of Huayan, and in turn reflects a Yogâcāra view of existence, but in a more idealistic sense. Soothill, Yokoi, and Nakamura (at least—and maybe other sources) all attribute this line to the Huayan jing 華嚴經, but although such a message might be gleaned from relevant passages in that sūtra, this actual phrase is not found there. This identification is probably made following the line from Fazangʼs commentary on the Awakening of Mahāyāna Faith, which indicates the Huayan jing as the source. 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.255a4〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Soothill]
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:18 am

Side note: Dharma Flower wrote the quote in DGA's post, not rory.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Dharma Flower » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:58 am

The "One Mind" is a concept of Yogacara thought, in addition to Huayan thought. Then again, perhaps we should look for the ultimate meaning rather than being fixated on the words themselves.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by ItsRaining » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:13 am

Huayan puts a lot of emphasis in the One Mind but that doesn't it make it a Huayan thing. It's present in most prominently the Awakening of Faith and in Tiantai a bit so you can't say it originated with Huayan.

The One Mind from what I understand is taken to be the True Mind 真心 or Mind of Suchness 真如心 (as opposed to the Mind of arising and ceasing which originates from the One Mind based on avidya as per Awakening of Faith) which is originally pure and undifferentiated.
All dharmas are originally mind only, without any differentiation but due to non-realisation, the mind of differentiation arises seeing the various phenomena, this is known as avidya. The mind's nature is originally pure, avidya doesn't arise then it is equivalent to suchness
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 am

As to "being fixated on words" - because we're dealing with translations of rather advanced philosophical teachings, getting all the context that we can to understand how these terms are being used is vital to understanding the "ultimate meaning". Assuming the meaning of the words used in the original extend beyond their original intent because the translator opted for a word that is "loaded" with different nuances in the target language is actually the more irresponsible & reckless path. It's the difference between understanding what's being said and making it up as you go.

ItsRaining - Thanks! Will just add those additional terms for completeness.

眞心
Basic Meaning: true mind
Senses:
- Enlightened mind; the mind possessed by buddhas. Pure mind; the mind of thusness 如心; the mind that is beyond all obstacles. 〔起信論 T 1666.32.576b6〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
In True Pure Land, the mind of real faith 信心. [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
Pure mind; undefiled mind. [Charles Muller]

眞如心
Basic Meaning: mind of true thusness
Senses:
- In the Awakening of Mahāyāna Faith this mind is taught in contrast to the mind of arising and ceasing 生滅心. The true thusness aspect of the mind is also written as 心眞如門. " 'The mind of true thusness;' This [mind], from the origin, is endowed with as much merit as the amount of the grains of sand of the Ganges River. Therefore it is called the nonempty tathāgatagarbha. " 「眞如心 此心從本以來 具足恆河沙性功德 故名不空如來藏」. 〔梵網經菩薩戒本私記 HBJ.1.590a〕 . See also 如來藏心. 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.269b7〕 [Charles Muller]

如來藏心
Basic Meaning: mind of the tathāgatagarbha
Senses:
- According to Mahāyāna traditions such as those connected with Paramârtha, the Awakening of Faith, Huayan, Tiantai, etc., the mind is essentially pure and identical with that of the Buddha, although it may be obscured by illusion. When the illusion is removed, the pure mind shines forth and perfect enlightenment is achieved. The Yogâcāra school, on the other hand, does not recognize the existence of an eternally pure ground of mind, teaching instead that enlightenment can be realized only if the fundamental mind (ālayavijñāna 阿賴耶識) contains untainted seeds 無漏種子. From this standpoint, not all sentient beings are necessarily capable of attaining enlightenment. See 眞如心 and 干栗馱 (Skt. tathāgata-garbha-hṛdaya). 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.250b15〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): JEBD, Soothill, Hirakawa]
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am

From a Vajrayana perspective, this is an interesting thread.
Too often it seems to me such discussions slide either into faux vedanta..'all is one', or worse, into 'none of us exists' type Zen sickness.
It is both instructive and refreshing to see this important topic discussed in depth.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by fuki » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:11 am

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am
From a Vajrayana perspective, this is an interesting thread.
Too often it seems to me such discussions slide either into faux vedanta..'all is one', or worse, into 'none of us exists' type Zen sickness.
It is both instructive and refreshing to see this important topic discussed in depth.
In Ch'an what is meant by "mind" depends on the context, opening up a book to look for a fixed philosophy of "mind" is already the very illusory and delusional mind, believe me I speak from experience :lol: So even understanding "one-mind" that way is definitely not "one-mind"

One mind is one of the "stages of practise" in Ch'an in practise it goes from scattered mind, concentrated mind, one-mind, no-mind.

From a philosophical, dictionary or historical perspective I'm not much of a help here. From my own experience one mind is "simply" consciousness-only meaning no more personal body-mind, however there are many levels of one mind, sometimes called samadhis. However there is still a self, it is still samsara.

btw Simon it only becomes a sickness when clinged to, when seen as an attainment, so one-mind too needs to be let go of. Any teaching from whatever tradition can be the sickness instead of the cure.
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by ItsRaining » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:17 am

Admin_PC wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 am
As to "being fixated on words" - because we're dealing with translations of rather advanced philosophical teachings, getting all the context that we can to understand how these terms are being used is vital to understanding the "ultimate meaning". Assuming the meaning of the words used in the original extend beyond their original intent because the translator opted for a word that is "loaded" with different nuances in the target language is actually the more irresponsible & reckless path. It's the difference between understanding what's being said and making it up as you go.

ItsRaining - Thanks! Will just add those additional terms for completeness.

眞心
Basic Meaning: true mind
Senses:
- Enlightened mind; the mind possessed by buddhas. Pure mind; the mind of thusness 如心; the mind that is beyond all obstacles. 〔起信論 T 1666.32.576b6〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
In True Pure Land, the mind of real faith 信心. [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
Pure mind; undefiled mind. [Charles Muller]

眞如心
Basic Meaning: mind of true thusness
Senses:
- In the Awakening of Mahāyāna Faith this mind is taught in contrast to the mind of arising and ceasing 生滅心. The true thusness aspect of the mind is also written as 心眞如門. " 'The mind of true thusness;' This [mind], from the origin, is endowed with as much merit as the amount of the grains of sand of the Ganges River. Therefore it is called the nonempty tathāgatagarbha. " 「眞如心 此心從本以來 具足恆河沙性功德 故名不空如來藏」. 〔梵網經菩薩戒本私記 HBJ.1.590a〕 . See also 如來藏心. 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.269b7〕 [Charles Muller]

如來藏心
Basic Meaning: mind of the tathāgatagarbha
Senses:
- According to Mahāyāna traditions such as those connected with Paramârtha, the Awakening of Faith, Huayan, Tiantai, etc., the mind is essentially pure and identical with that of the Buddha, although it may be obscured by illusion. When the illusion is removed, the pure mind shines forth and perfect enlightenment is achieved. The Yogâcāra school, on the other hand, does not recognize the existence of an eternally pure ground of mind, teaching instead that enlightenment can be realized only if the fundamental mind (ālayavijñāna 阿賴耶識) contains untainted seeds 無漏種子. From this standpoint, not all sentient beings are necessarily capable of attaining enlightenment. See 眞如心 and 干栗馱 (Skt. tathāgata-garbha-hṛdaya). 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.250b15〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): JEBD, Soothill, Hirakawa]
Charles Muller's dictionary is pretty nice! :twothumbsup:

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by ItsRaining » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 am

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am
From a Vajrayana perspective, this is an interesting thread.
Too often it seems to me such discussions slide either into faux vedanta..'all is one', or worse, into 'none of us exists' type Zen sickness.
It is both instructive and refreshing to see this important topic discussed in depth.
I think some people don't read the Awakening of Faith properly or just suddenly (Hehe, Zen is sudden... I'm sorry I'll leave) learn concepts like True Mind or One Mind without any background knowledge so it confuses them. For example, Awakening of Faith and other Chan masters will describe the One Mind to be without form, without inside or outside, defiled or pure which are classic descriptions of Emptiness but they won't recognise/understand it's meaning. Or the True Mind is described to be permanent and luminous but at the same time 寂 or void/extinguished which is a term often used for Nirvana so it implies the Mind is empty and not a Vedanta type thing.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by fuki » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm

ItsRaining wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 am
learn concepts like True Mind or One Mind without any background knowledge so it confuses them.
Well if the "background knowledge" is understood the concepts are still useless.
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:49 pm

ItsRaining wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 am
Simon E. wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am
From a Vajrayana perspective, this is an interesting thread.
Too often it seems to me such discussions slide either into faux vedanta..'all is one', or worse, into 'none of us exists' type Zen sickness.
It is both instructive and refreshing to see this important topic discussed in depth.
I think some people don't read the Awakening of Faith properly or just suddenly (Hehe, Zen is sudden... I'm sorry I'll leave) learn concepts like True Mind or One Mind without any background knowledge so it confuses them. For example, Awakening of Faith and other Chan masters will describe the One Mind to be without form, without inside or outside, defiled or pure which are classic descriptions of Emptiness but they won't recognise/understand it's meaning. Or the True Mind is described to be permanent and luminous but at the same time 寂 or void/extinguished which is a term often used for Nirvana so it implies the Mind is empty and not a Vedanta type thing.

Yes...I think the problem is that many people come to Buddhadharma via a vague interest in 'Eastern stuff' ..often Vedanta or neo Vedanta and assume that the terms mean the same in Buddhadharma..and they don't.
This is not helped by self proclaimed internet sages who leap into discussions while never leaving their self built safe zones which they erect to justify their alienation from 'ordinary' life.

Not a phenomenon that is unique to Zen of course.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:57 pm

fuki wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:11 am
Simon E. wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 am
From a Vajrayana perspective, this is an interesting thread.
Too often it seems to me such discussions slide either into faux vedanta..'all is one', or worse, into 'none of us exists' type Zen sickness.
It is both instructive and refreshing to see this important topic discussed in depth.
In Ch'an what is meant by "mind" depends on the context, opening up a book to look for a fixed philosophy of "mind" is already the very illusory and delusional mind, believe me I speak from experience :lol: So even understanding "one-mind" that way is definitely not "one-mind"

One mind is one of the "stages of practise" in Ch'an in practise it goes from scattered mind, concentrated mind, one-mind, no-mind.

From a philosophical, dictionary or historical perspective I'm not much of a help here. From my own experience one mind is "simply" consciousness-only meaning no more personal body-mind, however there are many levels of one mind, sometimes called samadhis. However there is still a self, it is still samsara.

btw Simon it only becomes a sickness when clinged to, when seen as an attainment, so one-mind too needs to be let go of. Any teaching from whatever tradition can be the sickness instead of the cure.
I don't accept that you have the necessary realisation to teach what you give lip service to.
There are various internal inconsistencies in your forum input, (and I am not referring to doctrinal correctness) that lead me to that conclusion.
There are people on the Zen forums whose view I will give time to.
You are not one of them.

:namaste:
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by fuki » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:13 pm

It's sad to see you betray the trust of Mahamudra Simon, I wish you well and strong practise. May you enter one mind swiftly which belongs to no religion.
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:17 pm

Yeah yeah..yadda yadda.

'Betraying the Mahamudra'..brilliant.

As my cockney neighbours would say..'You don't 'alf fancy yourself don't you son'?
:lol:
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Simon E.
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Simon E. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:20 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 am
As to "being fixated on words" - because we're dealing with translations of rather advanced philosophical teachings, getting all the context that we can to understand how these terms are being used is vital to understanding the "ultimate meaning". Assuming the meaning of the words used in the original extend beyond their original intent because the translator opted for a word that is "loaded" with different nuances in the target language is actually the more irresponsible & reckless path. It's the difference between understanding what's being said and making it up as you go.

ItsRaining - Thanks! Will just add those additional terms for completeness.

眞心
Basic Meaning: true mind
Senses:
- Enlightened mind; the mind possessed by buddhas. Pure mind; the mind of thusness 如心; the mind that is beyond all obstacles. 〔起信論 T 1666.32.576b6〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
In True Pure Land, the mind of real faith 信心. [Charles Muller; source(s): Nakamura]
Pure mind; undefiled mind. [Charles Muller]

眞如心
Basic Meaning: mind of true thusness
Senses:
- In the Awakening of Mahāyāna Faith this mind is taught in contrast to the mind of arising and ceasing 生滅心. The true thusness aspect of the mind is also written as 心眞如門. " 'The mind of true thusness;' This [mind], from the origin, is endowed with as much merit as the amount of the grains of sand of the Ganges River. Therefore it is called the nonempty tathāgatagarbha. " 「眞如心 此心從本以來 具足恆河沙性功德 故名不空如來藏」. 〔梵網經菩薩戒本私記 HBJ.1.590a〕 . See also 如來藏心. 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.269b7〕 [Charles Muller]

如來藏心
Basic Meaning: mind of the tathāgatagarbha
Senses:
- According to Mahāyāna traditions such as those connected with Paramârtha, the Awakening of Faith, Huayan, Tiantai, etc., the mind is essentially pure and identical with that of the Buddha, although it may be obscured by illusion. When the illusion is removed, the pure mind shines forth and perfect enlightenment is achieved. The Yogâcāra school, on the other hand, does not recognize the existence of an eternally pure ground of mind, teaching instead that enlightenment can be realized only if the fundamental mind (ālayavijñāna 阿賴耶識) contains untainted seeds 無漏種子. From this standpoint, not all sentient beings are necessarily capable of attaining enlightenment. See 眞如心 and 干栗馱 (Skt. tathāgata-garbha-hṛdaya). 〔大乘起信論義記 T 1846.44.250b15〕 [Charles Muller; source(s): JEBD, Soothill, Hirakawa]
This is really useful..Thank you.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Malcolm
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:47 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:54 am


三界唯一心
Basic Definition: the triple realm is nothing but the one mind
Senses:
- The triple world is but one mind.

This is a citation of the Avatamska:

/'di ltar khams gsum 'di ni sems tsam ste/

Thus, the three realms are only mind.



It uses very similar phrasing to the Lanka:

/'di ltar khams gsum 'di ni rang gi sems tsam ste/

Thus, the three realms are only one's mind.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by DGA » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:15 pm

Monlam Tharchin wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:18 am
Side note: Dharma Flower wrote the quote in DGA's post, not rory.
Yes, I messed up with the quote tool and got the tags all wrong on accident. The part I was particularly interested in discussing was the quotation from J Stone's study on changes in Japanese Buddhist doctrines in a much later historical period from the emergence of Hua Yen in China.

I apologize to rory and to Dharma Flower for this error.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:28 pm

I'm kind of feeling the need to justify my alienation from 'ordinary' life, so I thought I might leap into the discussion with the entry from "The Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism" on this topic:

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Everything is divided
Nothing is complete
Everything looks impressive
Do not be deceived - David Byrne

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Malcolm
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Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:38 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:28 pm
I'm kind of feeling the need to justify my alienation from 'ordinary' life, so I thought I might leap into the discussion with the entry from "The Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism" on this topic:

The problem with this entry is that the term "ekacitta" is not attested in the Lanka, existing nowhere in the Sanskrit text or its Tibetan translation. It appears that the term ekacitta is used by Suzuki on page 269 of his study of the Lanka, but it is not listed as term appearing in his Chinese, Sanskrit, Tibetan glossary.

The quasi-Vedanta use of the term in Chinese Buddhism causes a lot of problems for westerners.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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