Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by Norwegian » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:No one made up "Lamaism" because they hated Tibetans.
False, the term was coined by Waddel, who hated Tibetans as much as he was fascinated by them.
Indeed. And he was totally ignorant of that which he wrote about. Reading his work is totally surreal.

"Donald Lopez regards Lamaism as a foreign construct, devised by Chinese expansionists and Western Orientalists in the late eighteenth century. By implying that Buddhism established itself in Tibet only as an addendum to earlier animist or primitive forms of Tibetan religion, Lamaism misconstrues the Tibetan faith as something distinct from pure Buddhism. Although Lopez does not deny that preexisting folk religions helped shape Tibetan Buddhism, he thinks the term "Lamaism" vastly exaggerates their influence. By Victorian times, Lamaism had become one of the era's "historicisms...a fundamental trope in the history that late Victorian colonialism wrote for itself." The trope made it "easier to portray Tibet as entirely other and hence incapable of its own representation." -- http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/ ... pence.html

"Lopez shows that earlier writers misleadingly borrowed the Tibetan term "lama" and appended "-ism." Protestant chauvinism chose that term to signify "the corrupt priestscraft," as Catholicism was viewed by European protestants and Anglicans (p. 17). In the process of classifying, indigenous view is discounted as either unscientific or irrelevant. Today, the term "lamaism" has been more or less discarded in the academic field; nevertheless, it still creeps into popular literature and there is a residual trace in western perception that the religion of Tibet is a debased form of the original Buddhism. Today, this debate has openly resurfaced among Chinese sociologists and academics and it has incensed the Tibetans." -- Tsering Shakya

"The most common Western name for Tibetan Buddhism, "Lamaism," is considered a disparaging term by Tibetans. At the end of the nineteenth century, both England and Russia wanted to add Tibet to their empires. Europeans typically justified colonialism by portraying the colony as a culturally deficient land that needed to be saved from itself. So Tibet was depicted as an irrational place with superstitious people living under the yoke of corrupt and evil priests. The religion of these priests, Westerners claimed, was not an authentic form of Buddhism and so did not deserve the name, instead they called it "Lamaism." Western scholars depicted true Buddhism as a religion of reason and restraint, filled with deep philosophy and free from the confines of ritual. In fact, such a pure form of Buddhism never existed in Asia, and was to be found only in the libraries and lecture halls of Europe and America." -- Donald Lopez

Some random Waddell quotes:

- "By the Nyingma-pa, the great wizard Guru Pema is worshipped as "a second Buddha", in spite of his uncelibate life, his semi-demoniac temper, and his being altogether void of any of the admirable traits of Buddha."

- "The temple had no place in primitive Buddhism. It is the outcome of the worship of relics and images, and dates from the later and impurer stage of Buddhism"

- Regarding food offerings he has this to say: "This feast is observed by all sects of lamas, Nyingmapa, Gelukpa &c., and is an interesting sample of devil-worship."

It goes on and on. Everything he writes about Tibetans is negative. Their culture is negative, their religion is negative, Tibetans themselves are portrayed negative. It's all about how degenerate, primitive, impure, bad, etc. Tibetans are. The term "Lamaism" which of course is highly inaccurate just like Waddell's writings, is used in a negative derogatory fashion. There's no way around that fact.
Last edited by Norwegian on Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by DGA » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:04 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Oh its a dated term for certain, like "Amidism" for Pure Land, like "Mohammedan" for Muslim, etc, but I had always thought that the reason why people made up that term in the first place was in reaction to the notion that when you take refuge in the Three Jewels, in traditions that were called "Lamaist" by old Buddhologists, you also take refuge in 3 aspects of the Guru/Lama, who is treated as the Buddha. That is the root of this term is it not?
No, it is was meant originally as a way of delegitimizing Tibetan Buddhism.
Like the term Amidism with Pure Land practice. Unfortunately though, that is not a realistic account of the genesis of these terms, which treat the branches of Buddhism as seperate religions, each with their own "ism". Nowadays they are associated with incompetent British Buddhology, but they are named so in reaction to salient surface-level features that stick out to foreigners unfamiliar to the tradition. No one made up "Lamaism" because they hated Tibetans. It's associated with old British divisive Buddhologies, but that is not it's genesis.
Lamaism is clearly a term targeted at Tibetan Buddhists. (I am assuming that our intrepid author intended for "lamanism" to stand in for "lamaism," as he is surely one who would not repeat the same mistake over and over and over again in his many and varied proclamations.)

If so, then what has it to do with a discussion of Nichiren's attitude toward Shingon-shu? What's the connection there?

And how does this make sense of his comments on Ikeda as some kind of guru-wannabe?

Our author would certainly not mislead with misinformation...

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by muni » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:43 pm

I always thought how I see others, is showing the need for own laundry to be done. :soapbox:

“The very purpose of religion is to control yourself, not to criticize others. Rather, we must criticize ourselves. How much am I doing about my anger? About my attachment, about my hatred, about my pride, my jealousy? These are the things which we must check in daily life.” Dalai Lama
*Look into the mirror of your mind* Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
*Look into own naked mind and stay there.

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:03 am

DGA wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:...Like the term Amidism with Pure Land practice. Unfortunately though, that is not a realistic account of the genesis of these terms, which treat the branches of Buddhism as seperate religions, each with their own "ism". Nowadays they are associated with incompetent British Buddhology, but they are named so in reaction to salient surface-level features that stick out to foreigners unfamiliar to the tradition. No one made up "Lamaism" because they hated Tibetans. It's associated with old British divisive Buddhologies, but that is not it's genesis.
Lamaism is clearly a term targeted at Tibetan Buddhists. (I am assuming that our intrepid author intended for "lamanism" to stand in for "lamaism," as he is surely one who would not repeat the same mistake over and over and over again in his many and varied proclamations.)

If so, then what has it to do with a discussion of Nichiren's attitude toward Shingon-shu? What's the connection there?

And how does this make sense of his comments on Ikeda as some kind of guru-wannabe?

Our author would certainly not mislead with misinformation...
Lamaism is one thing, Lamanism is another. As I said back on page 1,
"Lamanism" (as a word) is an extremely obscure form of "Lamaism" which is indeed strictly a nineteenth-century English term for Tibetan (vajrayana) Buddhism.* Google books found me one reference (wow!) in Prisoners of Shangri-La: Tibetan Buddhism and the West
By Donald S. Lopez Jr. (pp. 41-42).
"Lamaism" itself is well out of fashion, and (IMO) anyone using "Lamanism" is either revealing a truly awesome ignorance of the vajrayana tradition (Tibetan or Japanese), is being deliberately obscure and obtuse, or has a most peculiar reference library. [emphasis added :tongue: ]
:namaste:
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by narhwal90 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:46 pm

DGA wrote:
Lamaism is clearly a term targeted at Tibetan Buddhists. (I am assuming that our intrepid author intended for "lamanism" to stand in for "lamaism," as he is surely one who would not repeat the same mistake over and over and over again in his many and varied proclamations.)

If so, then what has it to do with a discussion of Nichiren's attitude toward Shingon-shu? What's the connection there?

And how does this make sense of his comments on Ikeda as some kind of guru-wannabe?

Our author would certainly not mislead with misinformation...

From an SGI standpoint my understanding is that Nichiren was critical of contemporary Shingon (as well as Zen & Pure Land) practice for moving focus away from the sutras, and the Lotus Sutra in particular. OTOH it is clearly a complex argument space, I recall a gosho where he wrote to that a Nembutsu practice didn't hurt as long as daimoku was also practiced. As Q has frequently and eloquently stated on this forum, some of Nichiren's statements should also be considered in the context of medieval Japanese politics, and perhaps also cultural practices relating to lay vs priesthood.

As per the blog article, contrary to what is stated the SGI does not propose or follow the "Guru Yoga" practice wrt Mr Ikeda or anyone else and the establishment of that doctrine in the 80's/90's by Nichiren Shoshu was part of the reason for the discord and ultimate split. OTOH as cited, the principle of "Oneness of Master and Disciple" is a commonly heard refrain, Makaguchi/Toda, Toda/Ikeda are often cited and some of Nichiren's relationships as well, but the connotation is somewhat different from that claimed by the article. If I adopt the SGI concept wrt Mr Ikeda, then I consider his behavior in detail as an example and conduct myself accordingly. SGI encourages but does not require me to view him in that way.

That said, there is a thread of what I'd call Ikeda-ism that runs thru SGI, strongly sometimes. Might be its stronger in those closer to SGI administration, but its not universal. The cited blog correctly notes many take Mr Ikeda as their sensei and that concept is frequently seen in SGI pubs, I almost get a fetish vibe from some who are really into it. OTOH just because its stated in a publication doesn't mean that people are required to think that way- my experience has been that people make up their own minds wrt Mr Ikeda, some one way some the other and some don't take a position at all. The closest thing to doctrinal tests I've experienced are the study exams that SGI issues periodically but those do not push Mr Ikeda, they generally focus on Nichiren's life & writings, Sakyamuni and the Lotus Sutra. The result of the study exam is to get one to study and if you pass the "win" is you get to take the next level up- but thats the only consequence. I've taken a few of various levels completely without regard to order or passing grade so there isn't a lot of administrative machinery operating there.

The lineage question does appear from a leadership/administrative perspective; Makaguchi/Toda/Ikeda ie who is next, and the question is obviously political as well. From a doctrinal lineage standpoint, the SGI does not put anyone between me and Nichiren, I am no less in the lineage than anyone else who chants daimoku,

The monthly SGI pubs feature study material & interpretations putatively written by Mr Ikeda, so there is a sense of doctrinal leader in that way. For my part I'd prefer if the SGI study focus would be broader ie take in other perspectives like the things that the schools share rather than the narrow focus. OTOH organizations do have to protect & strengthen their brands, and perhaps wider study of the various schools is better done in other venues.

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by eijo » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:53 pm

crazy-man wrote:
DGA wrote:Is there any such thing as guru yoga in the Shingon tradition?
perhaps one finds elements in the tachikawa-ryu because this ryu arose later, when the anuttara yogatantra was already established
http://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/en ... chikawaryu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikawa-ryu
Shingon has no guru yoga.

Tachikawaryu was not a form of anuttarayoga tantra at all. It had no guru yoga either.

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by DGA » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:17 am

DGA wrote:In circulation in the blogosphere and on discussion boards not unlike Dharmawheel, one can find masterpieces such as this:

http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2013/12/o ... h-and.html

Here, it is claimed that there is a historical continuity from Shingon-shu to some Nichiren schools such as SGI. Our author seems to think this indicates a problem if true--a degeneration or departure from the Real Deal--but that is a doctrinal matter appropriate to a different DW subforum. What I would like to probe are the kinds of continuities he claims are at work from the Shingon tradition he describes (does he describe it accurately?) to contemporary Nichiren Buddhist offshoots such as SGI.

First claim: Shingon-shu is an "offshoot of lamanism." What's lamanism? That is, is there such a thing as a historical phenomenon called "lamanism" apart from the category constructed by early European scholars of Mahayana Buddhism? And if so, how is Shingon-shu an offshoot of it?

Second claim: There is a practice in Shingon-shu called "guru yoga." Our author doesn't specify particularly what that practice is or how it works, but he does assume it involves a kind of authoritarianism (the same authoritarianism he finds in SGI). Is there any merit whatsoever to this claim?

:reading:
It seems to me that this discussion has resolved both the questions I raised at the start.

1. There is no evidence that Shingon-shu is an offshoot of any kind of Tibetan Buddhism, and "lamanism" is a stupid definition for that anyway. Instead, all evidence suggests that Shingon-shu preserves and practices a transmission of Buddha Dharma transmitted from India through China to Japan independent of any Tibetan influence. The author of the blog post linked above should know this.

2. There is no guru yoga in Shingon-shu. Further, the way in which he compares guru yoga practice as used in Tibetan Buddhism to the guru-devotion toward Ikeda he dispises in SGI communities is both ridiculous and insulting to all parties, the Tibetans and the SGI set.

Taken together, this means that the author of this piece is in the habit of making claims about issues he has no expertise in or meaningful knowledge of, using evidence he doesn't understand, to make a polemical claim that he could have made more easily using materials at hand (such as his own reason). I wonder if this means the rest of his blog should be read with a measure of caution?

:coffee:

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by illarraza » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:52 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:06 am
If Nichiren is a "Lamaist" school, than the Lotus Sutra is the "Lama" in question, more than any given person, even Nichiren. Just my two cents.
Good! I have no problem with the Lama being The Master of Teachings Lord Shakya of the Original Doctrine who is the the Root Lama of all Lamas throughout the Three Existences and Ten Directions.

Those who are denying that in Tibetian Buddhism there are Four Treasures in Tibetian Buddhism, the Fourth Treasure being the Lama are being disengenous:

"The Three Roots: (Tibetan: tsa sum) of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition are the lama (Sanskrit: guru), yidam (Sanskrit: ishtadevata) and protector, which may be a khandroma (Sanskrit: dakini) or chokyong (Sanskrit: dharmapala). The Three Roots are the second of three Tibetan Buddhist refuge formulations, the Outer, Inner and Secret forms of the Three Jewels. The 'Outer' form is the 'Triple Gem', (Sanskrit:triratna), the 'Inner' is the Three Roots and the 'Secret' form is the 'Three Bodies' or trikaya of a Buddha. These alternative refuge formulations are employed by those undertaking Deity Yoga and other tantric practices within the Tibetan Buddhist Vajrayana tradition as a means of recognizing the universality of Buddha Nature. The Three Roots are commonly mentioned in the Nyingma and Kagyu literature of Tibetan Buddhism. Unlike most aspects of Tibetan Buddhism, which originated in India, the Three Roots may be an original Tibetan formulation from the time of Padmasambhava.[1] The functions of the Three Roots are:

the Lama is the 'root of blessing' or 'root of grace'.
the Yidam is the 'root of methods' or 'root of accomplishments'
the Khandroma or Chokyong is the 'root of protection' or 'root of activity'[2] -- Wikipedia

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by illarraza » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:07 am

Under "Shingon" Wikipedia, we read:

"Guru yoga

Guru yoga (or "teacher practice") (Tibetan: bla ma'i rnal 'byor)[13] is a practice that has many variations, but may be understood as a tantric devotional process where the practitioners unite their mindstream with the mindstream of the guru. The guru is engaged as yidam, as a nirmanakaya manifestation of a Buddha. The process of guru yoga might entail visualization of an entire lineage of masters (refuge tree) as an invocation of the lineage. It usually involves visualization of the guru above or in front of the practitioner. Guru yoga may entail a liturgy or mantra such as the Prayer in Seven Lines (Tibetan: tshig bdun gsol 'debs), an evocation and invocation of Padmasambhava, though this is neither necessary nor mandatory.[14]

The Guru or spiritual teacher is essential as a guide during tantric practice, without their example, blessings and grace, genuine progress is held to be impossible for all but the most keen and gifted. Many tantric texts qualify the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharama and Sangha (Triratna) thus: "Guru is Buddha, Guru is Dharma and Guru is Sangha" to reflect their importance for the disciple. The guru is considered even more compassionate and more potent than the Buddha because one can have a direct relationship with the guru."

Now now, who is ignorant? Who tells it like it is? Who is a lying so-and so?

Mark

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by illarraza » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:09 am

Some people I called Hobos, are just too lazy to actually look things up for themselves, or is it that they hate Nichiren and Mark Rogow? I think both.

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by jake » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:54 am

Sorry, I don't see this under the Shingon Entry on Wikipedia. Can you provide a link?
illarraza wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:07 am
Under "Shingon" Wikipedia, we read:

"Guru yoga

Guru yoga (or "teacher practice") (Tibetan: bla ma'i rnal 'byor)[13] is a practice that has many variations, but may be understood as a tantric devotional process where the practitioners unite their mindstream with the mindstream of the guru. The guru is engaged as yidam, as a nirmanakaya manifestation of a Buddha. The process of guru yoga might entail visualization of an entire lineage of masters (refuge tree) as an invocation of the lineage. It usually involves visualization of the guru above or in front of the practitioner. Guru yoga may entail a liturgy or mantra such as the Prayer in Seven Lines (Tibetan: tshig bdun gsol 'debs), an evocation and invocation of Padmasambhava, though this is neither necessary nor mandatory.[14]

The Guru or spiritual teacher is essential as a guide during tantric practice, without their example, blessings and grace, genuine progress is held to be impossible for all but the most keen and gifted. Many tantric texts qualify the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharama and Sangha (Triratna) thus: "Guru is Buddha, Guru is Dharma and Guru is Sangha" to reflect their importance for the disciple. The guru is considered even more compassionate and more potent than the Buddha because one can have a direct relationship with the guru."

Now now, who is ignorant? Who tells it like it is? Who is a lying so-and so?

Mark
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:02 am

Just out of idle curiosity, I searched for, "The guru is engaged as yidam, as a nirmanakaya manifestation of a Buddha. The process of guru yoga might entail visualization of an entire lineage of masters (refuge tree) as an invocation of the lineage," i.e. the middle of that quote. Results?
Screen Shot search results.png
Screen Shot search results.png (206.81 KiB) Viewed 740 times
Looks like a much-copied chunk of text. :tongue:

:coffee:
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:44 am

dharmawheel should have a strict rule against citing wikipedia :soapbox:

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by jake » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:23 pm

illarraza wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:07 am
Under "Shingon" Wikipedia, we read:

"Guru yoga

Guru yoga (or "teacher practice") (Tibetan: bla ma'i rnal 'byor)[13] is a practice that has many variations, but may be understood as a tantric devotional process where the practitioners unite their mindstream with the mindstream of the guru. The guru is engaged as yidam, as a nirmanakaya manifestation of a Buddha.

Now now, who is ignorant? Who tells it like it is? Who is a lying so-and so?

Mark
Why do you keep calling this Shingon? This is from a section on Tibetan Buddhism, not Shingon. Further it has been clearly stated that Guru Yoga does not exist in Shingon-shu. (Thank you Kim for the googling!) Even Wikipedia agrees on this point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingon_B ... ay.C4.81na

Can you please clarify what you are trying to say? I don't understand your point.
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by DGA » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:04 am

jake wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:23 pm
illarraza wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:07 am
Under "Shingon" Wikipedia, we read:

"Guru yoga

Guru yoga (or "teacher practice") (Tibetan: bla ma'i rnal 'byor)[13] is a practice that has many variations, but may be understood as a tantric devotional process where the practitioners unite their mindstream with the mindstream of the guru. The guru is engaged as yidam, as a nirmanakaya manifestation of a Buddha.

Now now, who is ignorant? Who tells it like it is? Who is a lying so-and so?

Mark
Why do you keep calling this Shingon? This is from a section on Tibetan Buddhism, not Shingon. Further it has been clearly stated that Guru Yoga does not exist in Shingon-shu. (Thank you Kim for the googling!) Even Wikipedia agrees on this point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingon_B ... ay.C4.81na

Can you please clarify what you are trying to say? I don't understand your point.
:coffee:

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by DGA » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:11 am

illarraza wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:09 am
Some people I called Hobos, are just too lazy to actually look things up for themselves, or is it that they hate Nichiren and Mark Rogow? I think both.
Hobos are great. Here's my evidence.




But it is a mistake to assume that one's agonists are motivated by hatred or personal malice. The truth about this thread is simple:

You wrote a weak, badly-informed article and signed your own name to it.

That article was full of mistakes, misattributions, weak assumptions, tenuous connections, and nonsense.

A responsible person would simply own those mistakes, accept correction, and learn from the experience, and move on. Here they are in summary:
DGA wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:17 am
1. There is no evidence that Shingon-shu is an offshoot of any kind of Tibetan Buddhism, and "lamanism" is a stupid definition for that anyway. Instead, all evidence suggests that Shingon-shu preserves and practices a transmission of Buddha Dharma transmitted from India through China to Japan independent of any Tibetan influence. The author of the blog post linked above should know this.

2. There is no guru yoga in Shingon-shu. Further, the way in which he compares guru yoga practice as used in Tibetan Buddhism to the guru-devotion toward Ikeda he dispises in SGI communities is both ridiculous and insulting to all parties, the Tibetans and the SGI set.

Taken together, this means that the author of this piece is in the habit of making claims about issues he has no expertise in or meaningful knowledge of, using evidence he doesn't understand, to make a polemical claim that he could have made more easily using materials at hand (such as his own reason). I wonder if this means the rest of his blog should be read with a measure of caution?
Has your response been that of a reasonable person, much less a professed "votary" of the highest teaching of Buddha Shakyamuni?

Your friend DGA, an upholder of the Lotus Sutra, and Votary of Hobo Chang Ba



POSTSCRIPT:

This topic is also relevant to the themes of this discussion
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26860

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by illarraza » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:16 am

DGA wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:11 am
illarraza wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:09 am
Some people I called Hobos, are just too lazy to actually look things up for themselves, or is it that they hate Nichiren and Mark Rogow? I think both.
Hobos are great. Here's my evidence.




But it is a mistake to assume that one's agonists are motivated by hatred or personal malice. The truth about this thread is simple:

You wrote a weak, badly-informed article and signed your own name to it.

That article was full of mistakes, misattributions, weak assumptions, tenuous connections, and nonsense.

A responsible person would simply own those mistakes, accept correction, and learn from the experience, and move on. Here they are in summary:
DGA wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:17 am
1. There is no evidence that Shingon-shu is an offshoot of any kind of Tibetan Buddhism, and "lamanism" is a stupid definition for that anyway. Instead, all evidence suggests that Shingon-shu preserves and practices a transmission of Buddha Dharma transmitted from India through China to Japan independent of any Tibetan influence. The author of the blog post linked above should know this.

2. There is no guru yoga in Shingon-shu. Further, the way in which he compares guru yoga practice as used in Tibetan Buddhism to the guru-devotion toward Ikeda he dispises in SGI communities is both ridiculous and insulting to all parties, the Tibetans and the SGI set.

Taken together, this means that the author of this piece is in the habit of making claims about issues he has no expertise in or meaningful knowledge of, using evidence he doesn't understand, to make a polemical claim that he could have made more easily using materials at hand (such as his own reason). I wonder if this means the rest of his blog should be read with a measure of caution?
Has your response been that of a reasonable person, much less a professed "votary" of the highest teaching of Buddha Shakyamuni?

Your friend DGA, an upholder of the Lotus Sutra, and Votary of Hobo Chang Ba



POSTSCRIPT:

This topic is also relevant to the themes of this discussion
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26860
You may call it what you like PotatO or pOtato, TOmato or tomatO, Tibetian or Shingon are both Vajrayana (with Tibetian "Buddhism" adding a hefty sprinkling of Bon). Whether the Guru as in Guru Yoga (Tibetian) or Guru as Maha Acharya (Shingon), Tantra Yoga is found in both. Perhaps you believe that you are an upholder of the Lotus Sutra but there is no Lotus Sutra in Mappo without Nichiren.

Mark

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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by illarraza » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:44 am

No Guru Yoga in Shingon???

"I take refuge in the Great Guru, the Vajra of all pervading spiritual radiance." -- Shingon prayer

Who is kidding whom?

I have no problem with Guru Yoga as long as the Guru is the most compassionate infinitely long Enlightened Master(s) in the History of the multiverse, Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin, the Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra, otherwise known as Vishishtacharitra. Taking any other master(s) you are shafting yourself, hardly leading yourselves to Annutara Samyak Sambodhi but rather into the Avici Hell. You have been warned.

Mark

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Malcolm
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by Malcolm » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:14 pm

illarraza wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:44 am
No Guru Yoga in Shingon???

"I take refuge in the Great Guru, the Vajra of all pervading spiritual radiance." -- Shingon prayer

Who is kidding whom?
Taking refuge in a guru is not guru yoga. Guru yoga is a specific kind of practice that does not exist in the lower/outer tantras practiced in Shingon and Tendai.

As for Avici hell, you know what they say, heaven for the climate, hell for the company.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

jake
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Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools

Post by jake » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:09 pm

illarraza wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:44 am
No Guru Yoga in Shingon???

"I take refuge in the Great Guru, the Vajra of all pervading spiritual radiance." -- Shingon prayer

Who is kidding whom?
I'm certainly not kidding you. I enjoy a good joke but my delivery is terrible.

The quote you make above appears to be a loose rendering into English of: 南無大師遍照金剛 Namu Daishi Henjo Kongo. It is a statement of veneration. Not guru yoga as Malcolm has kindly explained just now with a flourish of humor, expertly delivered.
“The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone."

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