Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Forum for discussion of East Asian Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Caoimhghín »

Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Sentient Light
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Sentient Light »

No, I'm fairly certain it appears in the texts as written, since many of these texts also include the term "bodhisattva" as is.

In Asian cultures, it's not uncommon to show reverence by calling one's self the child and the revered being the parent. More than that, disciples of the Buddha-dharma are the Buddha's sons and daughters in that they "inherit" the dharma and its lineage.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

There are also sutra, commentary, etc. IIRC that specifically cover how one becomes "a child of the Jina(s)" etc. after taking refuge, I think the general statement is pretty common.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Queequeg »

Coëmgenu wrote:Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
Where do you find "son of Buddha"?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Malcolm »

Coëmgenu wrote:Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
No, it is a translation of jinaputra.
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
No, it is a translation of jinaputra.
Isn't jinaputra an epithet for bodhisattvas?
crazy-man
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by crazy-man »

jinaputra जिनपुत्र
Definition: m. Name of a bodhi-sattva-
http://sanskritdictionary.com/jinaputra/87240/1

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... /Jinaputra
JEFFREY HOPKINS DICTIONARY
Hopkins' Translations: Conqueror's child; Conqueror-child [i.e., Bodhisattva]
Others' Translations: {C}son of the Jina
Sanskrit: {C,MSA}jina-putra; {MSA}jinātma-ja

RANGJUNG YESHE DICTIONARY
buddha-child, buddha-son, jina putra. bodhisattva, a Buddha-son, child of a conqueror, prince, bodhisattva, the victorious ones and their heirs / sons and daughters, the heirs / sons and daughters of the victorious ones; Jinaputra, son of the Victorious One, (Syn. Bodhisattva) spiritual heir/ child of the victorious ones; victorious one's child / son; Offspring of the Buddhas or Conquerors: Bodhisattvas

RICHARD BARON DICTIONARY
spiritual heir/ child of the victorious ones

JIM VALBY DICTIONARY
prince, sons of the victorious ones, son of a king or prince or chief, son of a buddha, bodhisattva, prince, jinaputra
http://dictionary.thlib.org/internal_de ... ode=browse
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

crazy-man wrote:
jinaputra जिनपुत्र
Definition: m. Name of a bodhi-sattva-
http://sanskritdictionary.com/jinaputra/87240/1

http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... /Jinaputra
JEFFREY HOPKINS DICTIONARY
Hopkins' Translations: Conqueror's child; Conqueror-child [i.e., Bodhisattva]
Others' Translations: {C}son of the Jina
Sanskrit: {C,MSA}jina-putra; {MSA}jinātma-ja

RANGJUNG YESHE DICTIONARY
buddha-child, buddha-son, jina putra. bodhisattva, a Buddha-son, child of a conqueror, prince, bodhisattva, the victorious ones and their heirs / sons and daughters, the heirs / sons and daughters of the victorious ones; Jinaputra, son of the Victorious One, (Syn. Bodhisattva) spiritual heir/ child of the victorious ones; victorious one's child / son; Offspring of the Buddhas or Conquerors: Bodhisattvas

RICHARD BARON DICTIONARY
spiritual heir/ child of the victorious ones

JIM VALBY DICTIONARY
prince, sons of the victorious ones, son of a king or prince or chief, son of a buddha, bodhisattva, prince, jinaputra
http://dictionary.thlib.org/internal_de ... ode=browse
Padma Karpo Translation Committee (Lama Tony Duff):
>> རྒྱལ་སྲས་
>> <noun> 1) Abbrev. of rgyal po`i sras meaning "prince", the son of a king. 2) "Conqueror-son" or "conquerors-son". Abbrev. of rgyal ba`i sras. Translation of the Sanskrit "jinaputra" literally meaning "son(s) of the conqueror(s)" which is a common epithet for bodhisatvas. The bodhisatvas are the sons of the conquerors who will one day themselves become buddhas. The term is sometimes translated incorrectly as "buddha sons" or, even worse, as "bodhisatva(s)".
Which is confusing because he says it's an epithet for bodhisattvas, but that "bodhisattvas" is a bad translation. I've also sometimes seen rigs kyi bu translated as "bodhisattva", but apparently not all translators like this either.
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Caoimhghín »

Queequeg wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
Where do you find "son of Buddha"?
A few places. A crazy man joined DhammaWheel claiming to be God a while ago and "I am a Buddha's son" was one of his things he liked to say. I thought it was an odd expression. But then I found it again in some SGI literature I was reading back when I was vaguely interested in joining and I figured maybe it was a SGI thing, some idiomatic translation of "bodhisattvas" to make stress the 'humanity-aspect' of the bodhisattva ideal SGI is founded on, if that makes any sense. Then I found a (not crazy) user here named Son_of_Buddha. They I found it in the Burton Watson Lotus Sutra. So I figured it must be a well-established term I am not as familiar with.

From the other responses here it looks like it might be more common in Tibetan Buddhism.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Malcolm »

tomamundsen wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Is the English expression "son of Buddha" an idiosyncratic translation of the word "bodhisattva"?
No, it is a translation of jinaputra.
Isn't jinaputra an epithet for bodhisattvas?
Yes, but it is not a translation of bodhisattva.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Malcolm »

Coëmgenu wrote: Then I found a (not crazy) user here named Son_of_Buddha.
No, this guy is pretty crazy, in fact.
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Caoimhghín »

Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: Then I found a (not crazy) user here named Son_of_Buddha.
No, this guy is pretty crazy, in fact.
Well I didn't want to be making assumptions about people I don't know and gossiping about other users behind their back unless they are gone, like the crazy man who thought he both was and met God.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9466
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by DGA »

Coëmgenu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: Then I found a (not crazy) user here named Son_of_Buddha.
No, this guy is pretty crazy, in fact.
Well I didn't want to be making assumptions about people I don't know and gossiping about other users behind their back unless they are gone, like the crazy man who thought he both was and met God.
Some of Son of Buddha's posts remain visible on DW (one can trust that many were removed because they violated ToS), and from that basis one can assert that the content of his posts includes a generous helping of the crazy.

Someone tried to reproduce one of his moves, quoting a bit of the Nirvana Sutra out of context to suggest that Buddha Shakyamuni taught the existence of a "true self" or atman, recently on DW. Look in the "Ayn Rand Sucks" thread. So you can say that Son of Buddha lives on...
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by Caoimhghín »

DGA wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Well I didn't want to be making assumptions about people I don't know and gossiping about other users behind their back unless they are gone, like the crazy man who thought he both was and met God.
Some of Son of Buddha's posts remain visible on DW (one can trust that many were removed because they violated ToS), and from that basis one can assert that the content of his posts includes a generous helping of the crazy.

Someone tried to reproduce one of his moves, quoting a bit of the Nirvana Sutra out of context to suggest that Buddha Shakyamuni taught the existence of a "true self" or atman, recently on DW. Look in the "Ayn Rand Sucks" thread. So you can say that Son of Buddha lives on...
Well fair enough. I will concede this fellow was objectively crazy then. I didn't know he was banned and didn't think it would be the nicest to have a thread calling someone crazy outright, even if that label was warranted.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9466
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by DGA »

Coëmgenu wrote: I will concede this fellow was objectively crazy then. I didn't know he was banned and didn't think it would be the nicest to have a thread calling someone crazy outright, even if that label was warranted.
I think that's right too. It's rarely helpful to make it personal.
jmlee369
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Buddha's Son/Son of Buddha

Post by jmlee369 »

Coëmgenu wrote: From the other responses here it looks like it might be more common in Tibetan Buddhism.
The term itself is widely used in the major Mahayana sutras like the Avatamsaka, Lotus, etc. It is, as other users have mentioned, another title for bodhisattvas. However, I'm not quite sure it's neccesarily a mistranslation of jinaputra (Conqueror's son) because the term Buddha-putra and Buddha-suta are also attested in Sanskrit manuscripts (page 10, note 39) and Tibetan translations and I'm pretty sure the Chinese translators were not so clumsy as to gloss jina to buddha when they use Buddha's son (佛子) so consistently in the major translations. Buddha's son is how Korean Buddhists refer to themselves as Buddhists (on the assumption that being a Mahayana country, every Buddhist is a bodhisattva-in-training), and it is commonly used in Chinese liturgies as well when addressing the congregation (although I note that the Buddhist Text Translation Society translates it as "disciple[s] of the Buddha").
Post Reply

Return to “East Asian Buddhism”