Hua-Yen in English

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kirtu
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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by kirtu » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:33 pm

Huseng wrote:
kirtu wrote: So it's a kind of mnemonic device ?

Kirt
Perhaps meditative is the right way to put it.

One goes through the whole interweaving chain of syllables and produces insight.
And this is mostly then analytic meditation?

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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Indrajala » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:24 am

kirtu wrote:
Huseng wrote:
kirtu wrote: So it's a kind of mnemonic device ?

Kirt
Perhaps meditative is the right way to put it.

One goes through the whole interweaving chain of syllables and produces insight.
And this is mostly then analytic meditation?

Kirt
Good question. I'd have to ask a Kegon specialist on the specifics.
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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by jmlee369 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:45 am

kirtu wrote:
Huseng wrote: As for the diagram it depicts the truth of the dharma-dhatu from the Huayan perspective.
Yes I know - you said that in a previous post. But what does it actually say?

Kirt
義湘祖師法性偈

法性圓融無二相
諸法不動本來寂
無名無相絶一切
證智所知非餘境
眞性甚深極微妙
不守自性隨緣成
一中一切多中一
一卽一切多卽一
一微塵中含十方
一切塵中亦如是
無量遠劫卽一念
一念卽是無量劫
九世十世互相卽
仍不雜亂隔別成
初發心時便正覺
生死涅槃常共和
理事冥然無分別
十佛普賢大人境
能仁海印三昧中
繁出如意不思議
雨寶益生滿虛空
衆生隨器得利益
是故行者還本際
破息妄想必不得
無緣善巧捉如意
歸家隨分得資糧
以陀羅尼無盡寶
莊嚴法界實寶殿
窮坐實際中道床
舊來不動名爲佛

This is actually a very commonly used prayer in Korea, composed by Master Uisang (senior colleague of Fazang), most Korean Buddhists would be able to chant along. There's an okay translation on Wikipedia.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:44 pm

jmlee369 - If you (or anyone else) can improve upon the Okay Wiki translation, please do so. For example verse 3:
There is neither name nor form,
everything is cut;
What means 'cut'?
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by ItsRaining » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:40 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:jmlee369 - If you (or anyone else) can improve upon the Okay Wiki translation, please do so. For example verse 3:
There is neither name nor form,
everything is cut;
What means 'cut'?
Bad translation it says "無名無相絶一切" Without Name, without Form, all is exhausted.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:50 am

ItsRaining wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:jmlee369 - If you (or anyone else) can improve upon the Okay Wiki translation, please do so. For example verse 3:
There is neither name nor form,
everything is cut;
What means 'cut'?
Bad translation it says "無名無相絶一切" Without Name, without Form, all is exhausted.
:bow: :bow: :bow: Now please, if you will render all the verses?
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by jmlee369 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:25 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:jmlee369 - If you (or anyone else) can improve upon the Okay Wiki translation, please do so. For example verse 3:
There is neither name nor form,
everything is cut;
What means 'cut'?
In the context of being beyond name and form, I take it to mean cut off from all conceptions.

This is my own rather poor translation, I am sure scholars like Indrajala will find many errors in it:

Lineage Master Uisang's Verses on the Nature of Phenomena (nature of dharmas)

The nature of phenomena is perfectly interfused, non-dual in form
All phenomena are unmoving, originally still
Without name, without form, severing all
Known by actualised wisdom, there is no other state*

True nature is deeply profound and sublime
Not dwelling in self-nature but manifesting according to conditions
Within one is all and in the many is the one
The one is all and the many are one

A single atom contains the ten directions
And in all atoms is likewise
Immeasurably distant kalpas are a single thought
A single thought is immeasurable kalpas

The nine periods and tenth period are mutually equal
Yet are not disarrayed, manifesting distinctly
The moment of first generating the mind (bodhicitta) is full awakening
Birth-and-death and nirvana is always harmonious

The principle and particulars being thus cannot be discriminated
(in the) state of great beings, the ten (all) Buddhas and Samantabhadra
The Oceanic Seal (sagaramudra) Samadhi of Shakya(muni)
Brings forth inconceivably abundant wish-fulfilling (jewels)

The jewel rain benefitting beings completely fills space
Sentient beings gain benefits according to their capacities
Through this the practitioner returns to the absolute origin
Unattainable without stilling delusions

Gaining the wish fulfilling (jewel) by unconditioned skilful (means)
Returning home and attaining merits in proportion
By this inexhaustible treasure dharani,
the jewelled hall of Dharmadhatu’s reality is adorned,

Ultimately sitting on the reality middle-way seat
The unmoving of old is named Buddha.

*This is a particularly difficult line and the interpretations vary, here are some alternative possibilities I have seen:
To be known by actualised wisdom and no other state
Actualised wisdom and discriminatory knowledge are not different states

Also, a correction to my previous post:
破息妄想必不得 should read 叵息妄想必不得

Here's an exampleof the verse being used in liturgy, with Amitabha Buddha's name following each line.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:28 am

Wonderful jmlee! I will ponder on it and add it to my collection of buddhadharma!
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:44 pm

Here is Steve Odin's version from his Process Metaphysics book; which also has Uisang's auto-commentary:
Uisang’s Ocean Seal of Hwaom Buddhism

1. Since dharma-nature is round and interpenetrating,
It is without any sign of duality.
2. All dharmas are unmoving,
And originally calm.
3. No name, no form,
All (distinctions) are abolished.
4. It is known through the wisdom of enlightenment,
Not by any other level.
5. The true-nature is extremely profound,
Exceedingly subtle and sublime.
6. It does not attach to self-nature,
But manifests following (causal) conditions.
7. In One is All,
In Many is One.
8. One is identical to All,
Many is identical to One.
9. In one particle of dust,
Is contained the ten directions.
10. And so it is,
With all particles of dust.
11. Incalculably long eons,
Are identical to a single thought-instant.
12. And a single thought-instant,
Is identical to incalculably long eons.
13. The nine times and the ten times,
Are mutually identical.
14. Yet are not confused or mixed,
But function separately.
15. The moment one begins to aspire with their heart,
Instantly perfect enlightenment (is attained).
16. Samsara and Nirvana,
Are always harmonized together.
17. Particular-phenomena (shih) and Universal-principie (li),
Are completely merged without distinction.
18. This is the world of the Bodhisattva Samantabhadra,
And the Ten Buddhas.
19. In Buddha’s Ocean-Seal-Samádhi,
20. Many unimaginable (miracles) are produced,
According to one’s wishes.
21. This shower of jewels benefiting all sentient beings,
Fills all of empty space.
22. All sentient beings receive this wealth,
According to their capacities.
23. Therefore, he who practices (contemplation),
Returns to the primordial realm.
24. And without stopping ignorance,
It cannot be obtained.
25. By unconditional expedient means,
One attains complete freedom.
26. Returning home (the primordial realm) you obtain riches,
According to your capacity.
27. By means of dharani,
An inexhaustible treasure,
28. One adorns the dharmadhátu,
Like a real palace of jewels.
29. Finally, one reposes in the real world,
The bed of the Middle Way.
30. That which is originally without motion,
Is named Buddha.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Of course the original is not a simple list of verses:

Image
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:36 pm

Collected Works of Korean Buddhism vol. 4 translation, adapted from Peter H. Lee, ed., Sourcebook of Korean Civilization (New York: Columbia University Press, 1992), 164–165. This volume four of CWKB (as is vol. five) is devoted only to Avatamsaka related texts.
The dharma nature is perfectly interfused, not possessing the characteristic of duality;
All dharmas are unmoving; they are originally quiescent.
They have no names and characteristics; all distinctions are severed.
It is known through the wisdom of realization and not by any other means.
[5] True nature is very deep and supremely fine and profound.
It is not attached to self-nature and is achieved in accordance with conditions.
Within one, there is all, and within many, there is one.
The one is precisely all, and the many are precisely the one.
A minute particle of dust contains the ten directions;
[10] All particles of dust are also like this.
The immeasurably distant kalpa is precisely a single thought-moment,
A single thought-moment is precisely an immeasurably distant kalpa.
The nine time periods and the ten time periods are mutually identical;
They are not in confusion, but have been formed separately.
[15] When one initially arouses the aspiration to enlightenment is precisely complete enlightenment.
Samsāra and nirvāna are always in harmony.
Principle and phenomena are obscure and undifferentiable
And are the sphere of the great people of the ten buddhas and Samantabhadra.
Able to enter into the ocean seal samādhi,
[20] [The Buddha’s] multitudinous production of wish fulfillment is inconceivable.
A rain of jewels that benefits living beings fills all space,
Living beings benefit according to their capacity to comprehend.
Therefore, the practitioner must return to the original source;
He cannot obtain it without ceasing from deluded thoughts.
[25] By means of unconditioned wholesome skills, he apprehends wish fulfillment,
Returns home, and obtains wealth according to his capacity.
With an inexhaustible treasure of dhāranī,
He adorns the dharma realm—a palace of real jewels.
Finally, seated on the throne of the Middle Way of Ultimate Reality,
[30] From times long past he has not moved—hence his name is
Buddha.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by jmlee369 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:29 am

A contemporary practice in Korea is to walk the Dharmadhatu diagram while chanting the Verses on Dharma Nature. You can see clips here with around 3500 attendees.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:17 pm

jmlee369 wrote:A contemporary practice in Korea is to walk the Dharmadhatu diagram while chanting the Verses on Dharma Nature. You can see clips here with around 3500 attendees.
Good devotion and practice! Just one time thru the figure or more? Also what is being carried on their head, Avatamsaka related shastras or the entire sutra?
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by jmlee369 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:21 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
jmlee369 wrote:A contemporary practice in Korea is to walk the Dharmadhatu diagram while chanting the Verses on Dharma Nature. You can see clips here with around 3500 attendees.
Good devotion and practice! Just one time thru the figure or more? Also what is being carried on their head, Avatamsaka related shastras or the entire sutra?
Given the number of participants, they only go through once, though the whole procession includes the main hall and the most special feature of that monastery (Haein or Ocean Seal monastery), the pavillions storing the original woodblocks for printing the Tripitaka Koreana. They're carrying a copy of the woodblock for the Heart Sutra, since the original woodblocks are too precious to be exposed.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:11 pm

This recent (2014) work by Tony Prince, Universal Enlightenment is a good introduction to the sutra, lineage, philosophy etc. He has an appendix where he puts in summary form all 39 chapters:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/273 ... -practices
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:21 pm

Prince's work bases much of his comments on the teachings of Li Tongxuan and Fazang.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:46 pm

Forgot about this old classic by Chang; which has, after a good presentation of Hwa-yen, these translations:
The Great Vows of Samantabhadra [from the Hwa Yen Sutra]
A Commentary on the Heart Sutra [by Master Fa Tsang]
On the Meditation of Dharmadhatu [by Master Tu Shun]
On the Golden Lion [by Master Fa Tsang]
The Biographies of the Patriarchs
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/460 ... n-buddhism

Also Francis H. Cook has a study, ca. 1977, which Zen folks seemed to like - I never read it. Titled Huayen Buddhism
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:11 pm

This Preface to the sutra by Avatamsaka Bodhisattva, has comments by Master Hua:

http://www.cttbusa.org/preface/faspreface_contents.asp
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Nikkolas » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:29 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:46 pm
Forgot about this old classic by Chang; which has, after a good presentation of Hwa-yen, these translations:
The Great Vows of Samantabhadra [from the Hwa Yen Sutra]
A Commentary on the Heart Sutra [by Master Fa Tsang]
On the Meditation of Dharmadhatu [by Master Tu Shun]
On the Golden Lion [by Master Fa Tsang]
The Biographies of the Patriarchs
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/460 ... n-buddhism

Also Francis H. Cook has a study, ca. 1977, which Zen folks seemed to like - I never read it. Titled Huayen Buddhism
Thank you for telling me this. I was planning on getting that book next month. I'm very new to Buddhism, primarily interested in Pure Land practice but I cannot deny that the rich history of Buddhist philosophy is too intriguing to ignore.

Of course, there is so much of it that I'm almost tempted to throw my hands up in despair because where does one even begin, ya know? I suppose Shakyamuni, Nagarjuna and Vasubandhu would be the ideal places to start as they seem like the Plato and Aristotle and...somebody else of Buddhist philosophy(insofar as it is wise to read Plato and Aristotle to have a firm grounding in all Western philosophy that followed them). But after that, I have no idea. There are many very important Indian masters like Dharmakirti that I see get mentioned a lot but Fazang fascinates me from what I've read of his thought. I suppose this is unfair but what I've read resonates well with what I already kinda thought in a way? I like comparing Western and Eastern philosophy but I know I have to be careful about looking for parallels since sometimes you just dream them up.

But thank you and everybody else for this highly informative thread. There are several books on Huayan in English that I found via Wikipedia's page on the sect as well as Fazang's page. But the translations here are all a great aid.

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Re: Hua-Yen in English

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:53 pm

jmlee369 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:25 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote:jmlee369 - If you (or anyone else) can improve upon the Okay Wiki translation, please do so. For example verse 3:
There is neither name nor form,
everything is cut;
What means 'cut'?
In the context of being beyond name and form, I take it to mean cut off from all conceptions.
For some reason, "one-cut" means "all/sarva" in Chinese. I don't know why though. I inquired as to this in the language subforum.

For instance, afaik, 一切法空 = sarvadharmanairātmya = all dharmāḥ without self-essence
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmāḥ. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmāḥ. The conventional truth establishes all dharmāḥ.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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