narhwal90 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:31 pm
In your prev post it seemed you were working towards a mutual possession sort of argument- each of the 3 contains the other two so three 3's making 9-fold. Using multiplication to convey structural relationship might not be appropriate though.
Believe it or not, for all my verbage, if I believe in 3 truths, it is only in that above array, the classical Tiāntāi one
(isn't it fascinating that Ven Zhiyi groups Tathāgatagarbha in with the second truth? I have an idea why, but I want to read more before I share it!), versus the 3-identical-truths array.
I think that treating the 3 truths are 3 jewels in Indra's Net will end up producing an equivalent array to the 3-identical-truths array. I think it would look something like this. Prepare yourself for some redundancy!
1. 1)Emtiness - Suchness - cessation of dharmas - Dharmakaya
2)Myriad dharmas - Tathágatagarbha - establishment of dharmas- Path of suffering
3)Emptiness & myriad dharmas in consumate interfusion - True Aspect - union of dharmas - Dharmakaya & Path of suffering at once.
2. 1)Emtiness - Suchness - cessation of dharmas - Dharmakaya
2)Myriad dharmas - Tathágatagarbha - establishment of dharmas- Path of suffering
3)Emptiness & myriad dharmas in consumate interfusion - True Aspect - union of dharmas - Dharmakaya & Path of suffering at once.
3. 1)Emtiness - Suchness - cessation of dharmas - Dharmakaya
2)Myriad dharmas - Tathágatagarbha - establishment of dharmas- Path of suffering
3)Emptiness & myriad dharmas in consumate interfusion - True Aspect - union of dharmas - Dharmakaya & Path of suffering at once.
And the above is reduceable to the exact same 3-identical-truths array from above, and there isn't a need for them to mutually possess each other,
since everything according to the above is strictly and absolutely identical. I think. Or maybe its just the 3 truths stated three times.
The above is, I think and in IMO only, essentially Indra's Net, if is
not simply a 3fold statement of a 3fold truth. The older Huáyán & newer Zen schools use this metaphysic. It doesn't work alone though, the Huáyán needed to first borrow Daoist Essence-Function polarity (體用二元). Here is a copy-paste from wiki of Daoist Essence-Function polarity
(which you can find in the DDJ, etc.):
Absolute | Relative
Straight | Bent
One | Manifold
Identical | Different
Universal | Particular
Noumenal | Phenomenal
Absolute | Appearance
Dark | Light
Real | Apparent
Ideal | Actual
And once they had done that, as this is not a Buddhist discourse, they then transform it
(or Buddha-tize it!) into the Four Dharmadhātavaḥ (四法界) or literally "four characteristics of dharmāḥ"
1. 事法界 (shì fǎ jiè): characteristic of matter/phenomenon/event
2. 理法界 (lǐ fǎ jiè): characteristic of principle/law/noumenon
3. 理事無礙法界 (lǐ shì wú'ài fǎ jiè): characteristic the nonobstruction of principle/law/noumenon & matter/phenomenon/event
4. 事事無礙法界 (shì shì wú'ài fǎ jiè): characteristic of the nonobstruction of matter/phenomenon/event & matter/phenomenon/event
With this caveat, Indra's Net "works", I think at least. At least, I think that that is how Indra's Net avoids collapsing into a nondifferentiated bubble. It is a little bit similar to interpenetration.