How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

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Caoimhghín
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Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

Post by Caoimhghín »

You can basically also look at it like this, but I think the there is still a translation failure on the part of who originally rendered the passage into English.

Extended above are the mysterious [blueprints], and arrayed below lie the courts of darkness. The primordial [spirit] is contained within the great [blueprints], and the great [blueprints] lie concealed in the formless as the [divine governing principle or divine will] of sentient things. Within the [divine governing principle or divine will] are spirits, and within the spirits are bodies.

No action, yet change and transformation—each endowed with spontaneity. Subtly there arise [essences] and functions, and gradually there develop forms and names. Forms emerge from that which has no substance, and names arise from that which has no name. As forms and names multiply, the roaming [spirits] confuse what was pure.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
mansurhirbi87
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Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:24 pm You can basically also look at it like this, but I think the there is still a translation failure on the part of who originally rendered the passage into English.

Extended above are the mysterious [blueprints], and arrayed below lie the courts of darkness. The primordial [spirit] is contained within the great [blueprints], and the great [blueprints] lie concealed in the formless as the [divine governing principle or divine will] of sentient things. Within the [divine governing principle or divine will] are spirits, and within the spirits are bodies.

No action, yet change and transformation—each endowed with spontaneity. Subtly there arise [essences] and functions, and gradually there develop forms and names. Forms emerge from that which has no substance, and names arise from that which has no name. As forms and names multiply, the roaming [spirits] confuse what was pure.
Which text is it ???? :shrug: Tao te ching ?????
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Caoimhghín
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Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

Post by Caoimhghín »

mansurhirbi87 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:47 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:24 pm You can basically also look at it like this, but I think the there is still a translation failure on the part of who originally rendered the passage into English.

Extended above are the mysterious [blueprints], and arrayed below lie the courts of darkness. The primordial [spirit] is contained within the great [blueprints], and the great [blueprints] lie concealed in the formless as the [divine governing principle or divine will] of sentient things. Within the [divine governing principle or divine will] are spirits, and within the spirits are bodies.

No action, yet change and transformation—each endowed with spontaneity. Subtly there arise [essences] and functions, and gradually there develop forms and names. Forms emerge from that which has no substance, and names arise from that which has no name. As forms and names multiply, the roaming [spirits] confuse what was pure.
Which text is it ???? :shrug: Tao te ching ?????
It's a looking at the Chinese behind the English translation of the Bǎozàng Lùn by Venerable Sēngzhào that was cited earlier. It is from The Treasury Treatise, 寶藏論, T1857. I am not a professional translator, just someone looking at the text speculating.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
mansurhirbi87
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

Post by mansurhirbi87 »

Thank you
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無無無
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Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?

Post by 無無無 »

Life was always such. But a "mistake" of confused compassion in the all knowing that lies in the mysterious origins of the cosmos split everything up into dualism. Temporarily at least since all things and beings return of themselves spontaneously to the source of ultimate reality. The absolute and all things experienced only exists as a returning motion to come full circle into perfection and happiness.

Rivers and mountains
Not rivers and mountains -
Then rivers and mountains again

I hope my shallow explanation of what little understanding i have does not cause any harm.

Peace.
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