Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Forum for discussion of East Asian Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
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SonamTashi
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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by SonamTashi » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am

Here is another source for Shin Dharma talks. Their head priest is one of my favorites for Shin dharma talks in particular.
:bow: :buddha1: :bow: :anjali: :meditate:

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by seeker242 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 pm

tonysharp wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:14 pm
Is there an easier way?
I find the easiest way is to not put much concern on inserting yourself into some particular school and just practice whatever you feel an affinity for.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by tonysharp » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:54 pm

SonamTashi wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
Here is another source for Shin Dharma talks. Their head priest is one of my favorites for Shin dharma talks in particular.
I subscribed. Thank you!
seeker242 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 pm
tonysharp wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:14 pm
Is there an easier way?
I find the easiest way is to not put much concern on inserting yourself into some particular school and just practice whatever you feel an affinity for.
:namaste:
“I, Shinran, do not have a single disciple of my own. The reason is that if I could induce others to call the nenbutsu through my own influence, then they might well be called my disciples. But it is utterly absurd to call them my disciples when they repeat the nenbutsu through the influence of Amida Buddha.”
Tannisho VI

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Admin_PC » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:08 pm

SonamTashi wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
Here is another source for Shin Dharma talks. Their head priest is one of my favorites for Shin dharma talks in particular.
Nice find!

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by DNS » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:28 pm

Since you were a Theravadin at one time and appear to like all the schools of Buddhism, you might like Chan. Here is something I wrote over at DP:
Chan Buddhism, the precursor to Zen (in Japan) is sort of like a "One Dharma" or "Buddhayana" all-inclusive Buddhism.

They have monastic clergy members of monks and nuns (similar to Theravada).
They chant Amitabha (Pure Land).
They practice Chan meditation (similar to Zen and Theravada meditations).
They are Mahayana and have beautiful temples, lots of colors, statues (similar to Vajrayana-Tibetan Buddhism).

So without creating something too drastically new, they are pretty close to what might be called Buddhayana. I like Chan Buddhism and have practiced and visited at some of their temples, even though I am primarily Theravada.
https://dharmapaths.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1214#p4562

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by tonysharp » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:11 pm

DNS wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:28 pm
Since you were a Theravadin at one time and appear to like all the schools of Buddhism ...
I so wish this was true since it would've made the past month much easier for me. I'm actually quite particular. But I've found a branch to settle with, Jodo Shinshu. Nembutsu is similar to my Theravadin buddhanusati practice, and I admire Shinran's approach to the Pure Land teachings, so it's a good fit for me.

Thank you for your reply.
“I, Shinran, do not have a single disciple of my own. The reason is that if I could induce others to call the nenbutsu through my own influence, then they might well be called my disciples. But it is utterly absurd to call them my disciples when they repeat the nenbutsu through the influence of Amida Buddha.”
Tannisho VI

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:37 pm

No longer an active Zen practitioner, but it's certainly not a thing you want to do without a teacher and/or community. Looking up practice material on the internet is wonderful on one level, the sheer amount of stuff available now is mind boggling.

However, basing ones practice on these resources completely really makes things seem one-dimensional without a connection to a teacher and community, you never quite leave the realm of theory.

With those things in place though, the resources can really come alive. Without them, IME it's very hard to cultivate any true faith in the teachings.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by 明安 Myoan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:40 pm

For Shin reading, Shinran Works is probably already in your list but worth mentioning.

I've found an occasional lack of clarity around Shinran's (and Honen's) teaching in third-party sources. Reading Honen and Shinran directly makes me want to say nembutsu rather than think about it.
I think that's significant.

And here is Chu-hung's Universal Encouragement to Buddha-Remembrance, which has been helpful to me:
Studying Buddhism is not a matter of adornments and formalistic practices: the only thing that is important is genuine cultivation of practice. Buddhist laypeople who live at home do not need to dress like monks and nuns. People who keep their hair can make a constant practice of buddha-remembrance: they do not need to abide by the daily schedules of monks and nuns.
People who like quiet can practice buddha-remembrance [alone] in silence: they do not have to form groups and create associations [for the purpose].
People who fear untoward events can practice buddha-remembrance [at home] behind closed doors: they do not have to go to temples to hear the scriptures.
People who know how to read can practice buddha-remembrance according to the scriptural teachings.
Burning incense [in temples] far and wide is not as good as sitting peacefully in a hall at home practicing buddha-remembrance.
Serving misguided teachers is not as good as being obedient and filial to one's parents and practicing buddha-remembrance.
Making widespread connections with deluded friends is not as good as preserving one's purity alone and practicing buddha-remembrance.
Storing up merit for future lives is not as good as creating merit in the present by practicing buddha-remembrance.
Making vows and promising expiation [of wrongdoings] is not as good as repenting past faults, undergoing self-renewal and practicing buddha-remembrance.
Studying non-Buddhist books and texts is not as good as being totally illiterate and practicing buddha-remembrance.
Engaging in false talk about the principles of Zen without knowledge is not as good as genuinely main-taining discipline and practicing buddha-remembrance.
Seeking demonic spiritual powers is not as good as having correct faith in cause and effect and practicing buddha-remembrance.
To express the essential point, an upright mind annihilates evil. If you practice buddha-remembrance like this, you are called a good person. If you practice buddha-remembrance while reining in the mind and eliminating scattering, you are called a worthy person. If you practice buddha-remembrance while enlightening your mind and cutting off delusion, you are called a sage.
I urge people who are completely at leisure to practice buddha-remembrance. You have finished arranging marriages for your daughters. Your sons and grandsons are taking care of family business. You are secure and at leisure with no concerns. You should practice buddha-remembrance with your whole mind and your whole strength. Every day recite the buddha-name several thousand times, or even several tens of thousands of times.
I urge people who are half at leisure and half busy to practice buddha-remembrance. You are half through, half not through: sometimes you are busy, sometimes you are at leisure. Though you are not totally at leisure, when you are busy you should take care of business, and when you have free time, you should practice buddha-remembrance. Every day recite the buddha-name several hundred times, or several thousand times.
I urge people who are completely busy to practice buddha-remembrance. You are working on government affairs, or else running around taking care of family business. Though you have no free time, you still must steal a bit of free time amidst your busy life and practice buddha-remembrance. Every day recite the buddha-name ten times in the morning, and several hundred times during the day.
:thumbsup:
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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Re: Choosing between Chan, Zen, Jìngtǔzōng, and Jōdo Shinshū

Post by tonysharp » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:33 pm

Mönlam Tharchin wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:40 pm
For Shin reading, Shinran Works is probably already in your list but worth mentioning.
:cheers:
I've found an occasional lack of clarity around Shinran's (and Honen's) teaching in third-party sources. Reading Honen and Shinran directly makes me want to say nembutsu rather than think about it.
With some exceptions, I agree. It's difficult to not be inspired by their devotion to practice.
And here is Chu-hung's Universal Encouragement to Buddha-Remembrance, which has been helpful to me:

...
Thank you for sharing this.
“I, Shinran, do not have a single disciple of my own. The reason is that if I could induce others to call the nenbutsu through my own influence, then they might well be called my disciples. But it is utterly absurd to call them my disciples when they repeat the nenbutsu through the influence of Amida Buddha.”
Tannisho VI

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