the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

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Fortyeightvows
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the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:41 am

Usually solar deitys are male, but Amaterasu is a goddess. Why?

PeterC
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PeterC » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:05 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:41 am
Usually solar deitys are male, but Amaterasu is a goddess. Why?
the sky-father / earth-mother pairing is hypothesized to originate with proto-indo-european beliefs. The reconstructed pair is labelled Dyeus and Dhegom by academics. If that theory is correct, then all the other sky-father figures derived from or were influenced by these beliefs. (I'm not familiar enough with the research to say how solid this theory is, btw.) Shinto derives from a different source - supposedly native Japanese beliefs, but wherever the raw materials came from, it was a long way away

PSM
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PSM » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:32 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:41 am
Usually solar deitys are male, but Amaterasu is a goddess. Why?
Solar (red) is female in Buddhism in general, especially tantric Buddhism. Lunar (white) is male.

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Queequeg
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:30 pm

Because the Japanese were matriarchal until the Chinese showed up and pointed out that women are inferior.

Where does life come from? The womb. What do men do? Stick there sticks in people and things for pleasure and gain. Which is the more impressive feat?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Fortyeightvows
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:06 pm

PeterC wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:05 am
the sky-father / earth-mother pairing is hypothesized to originate with proto-indo-european beliefs. The reconstructed pair is labelled Dyeus and Dhegom by academics. If that theory is correct, then all the other sky-father figures derived from or were influenced by these beliefs. (I'm not familiar enough with the research to say how solid this theory is, btw.) Shinto derives from a different source - supposedly native Japanese beliefs, but wherever the raw materials came from, it was a long way away
Sky father & earth mother.
Water comes from the sky and then things grow.
PSM wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:32 am
Solar (red) is female in Buddhism in general, especially tantric Buddhism. Lunar (white) is male.
But Vairocana is male...
Pretty sure that both Suryaprabha and Candraprabha are female

PeterC
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PeterC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:08 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:06 pm
PeterC wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:05 am
the sky-father / earth-mother pairing is hypothesized to originate with proto-indo-european beliefs. The reconstructed pair is labelled Dyeus and Dhegom by academics. If that theory is correct, then all the other sky-father figures derived from or were influenced by these beliefs. (I'm not familiar enough with the research to say how solid this theory is, btw.) Shinto derives from a different source - supposedly native Japanese beliefs, but wherever the raw materials came from, it was a long way away
Sky father & earth mother.
Water comes from the sky and then things grow.
Take it up with Zeus, Indra, Yahweh and the rest of the crowd...

Fortyeightvows
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:35 am

PeterC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:08 am
Take it up with Zeus, Indra, Yahweh and the rest of the crowd...
Sorry, I don't get your meaning.
Those deitys you names are all sky-fathers.

PeterC
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PeterC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:30 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:35 am
PeterC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:08 am
Take it up with Zeus, Indra, Yahweh and the rest of the crowd...
Sorry, I don't get your meaning.
Those deitys you names are all sky-fathers.
You asked at the start of the thread why Amaterasu is a goddess when sky deities are usually male. My explanation was: different traditions, the "usually male" is hypothesized to be because the majority of them originated from the same source, but Amaterasu came from a different cultural background. That's why she's the exception. Apologies if I was unclear.

PSM
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PSM » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:56 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:06 pm
PeterC wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:05 am
the sky-father / earth-mother pairing is hypothesized to originate with proto-indo-european beliefs. The reconstructed pair is labelled Dyeus and Dhegom by academics. If that theory is correct, then all the other sky-father figures derived from or were influenced by these beliefs. (I'm not familiar enough with the research to say how solid this theory is, btw.) Shinto derives from a different source - supposedly native Japanese beliefs, but wherever the raw materials came from, it was a long way away
Sky father & earth mother.
Water comes from the sky and then things grow.
PSM wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:32 am
Solar (red) is female in Buddhism in general, especially tantric Buddhism. Lunar (white) is male.
But Vairocana is male...
Pretty sure that both Suryaprabha and Candraprabha are female
From Robert Beer's Handbook of Tibetan Buddhist Symbols:
sunmoon.JPG
sunmoon.JPG (26.34 KiB) Viewed 452 times

Fortyeightvows
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:37 am

Yes, white and red for male and female of course.
But I think when a person thinks of solar deity they think of Vairocana

PSM
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by PSM » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:45 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:37 am
Yes, white and red for male and female of course.
But I think when a person thinks of solar deity they think of Vairocana
Not Amitabha?

Fortyeightvows
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:09 pm

PSM wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:45 am
Not Amitabha?
Vairocana when they translate it is literally ‘great sun tataghata’

But now that you mention it, that would make sense with Amitabha, it is just rare that I see or hear Amitabha translated, so it didn’t come to mind.

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Queequeg
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm

My sense of Amitabha, being red, in the West, is that he is the setting sun. Vairocana being bright and associated with white, is the noon day sun.

But again, Amaterasu is female because everything comes from the divine feminine. Japanese were matriarchal, ruled by female shaman priestesses.

Many modern Shintoists won't acknowledge this because... men.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Caoimhghín
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Caoimhghín » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:53 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
My sense of Amitabha, being red, in the West, is that he is the setting sun. Vairocana being bright and associated with white, is the noon day sun.

But again, Amaterasu is female because everything comes from the divine feminine. Japanese were matriarchal, ruled by female shaman priestesses.

Many modern Shintoists won't acknowledge this because... men.
The Confucianization of Shinto.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Queequeg
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Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:08 pm

Caoimhghín wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:53 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:02 pm
My sense of Amitabha, being red, in the West, is that he is the setting sun. Vairocana being bright and associated with white, is the noon day sun.

But again, Amaterasu is female because everything comes from the divine feminine. Japanese were matriarchal, ruled by female shaman priestesses.

Many modern Shintoists won't acknowledge this because... men.
The Confucianization of Shinto.
Yeah.

This whole modern Shinto is... I won't say.

They claim they're getting back to the real Japanese roots, but then they fail to exorcize the clear Chinese influences. Just to take some current events to analyze this...

So the new Emperor's reign is called Reiwa, which is supposedly drawn from the Manyoshu, one of the earliest Japanese texts, a collection of Japanese poems. This is a departure from the past practices which drew on Chinese poetry and writing. But, the Manyoshu itself appears to be poetry written in the Chinese custom... And then, the whole resistance to having an Empress... Because they won't let a woman ascend the throne, the next in line after the current emperor is his brother, a crypto-Christian. They'd rather have a crypto-Christian become the Emperor, to occupy the throne that is an unbroken line from Amaterasu Omi Kami, the position of high priest of Shinto, than have a woman.

Its quite ridiculous the lengths the Japanese nationalists will go to keep up their ideas.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: the goddess Amaterasu...but why a goddess?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 pm

My sense of Amitabha, being red, in the West, is that he is the setting sun. Vairocana being bright and associated with white, is the noon day sun.
:good:

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