Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Forum for discussion of East Asian Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
Valevalerio
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Valevalerio » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Hi everybody I'm new to the forum and to Buddhism itself. Also, I'm not a native speaker of English so please bear with me. I was looking for an article that speaks about the autorship of the Heart Sutra (completely written in Japanese). Can anybody help?
Thanks in advance,
Valerio

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 9358
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Queequeg » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:44 pm

Are you looking for an article in Japanese? Or are you asking about the Heart Sutra in Japanese?

The Heart Sutra (Hannyakyo) in Japan is actually written in Chinese, and is recited with the Japanese reading of the Chinese. If the sutra is translated into Japanese, then that's another story.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Valevalerio
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Valevalerio » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:37 pm

I'm looking for an article in Japanese :thanks:

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 9358
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Queequeg » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:46 pm

I'm assuming you read/speak Japanese then? You'd probably have a better chance finding articles doing a google search in Japanese.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Valevalerio
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Valevalerio » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:48 pm

I've been studying Japanese for 5 years by now but I still have some difficulties when it comes to uncommon kanji so I thought I would ask here for help. If anybody has something is welcome to post a message. I'll keep searching in the meanwhile. Thanks a lot!!

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 9358
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Queequeg » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:01 pm

You might get some responses. Good luck!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Shaku Kenshin
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:30 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Shaku Kenshin » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:06 am

Hi,

You should be able to find something if you search on one of the websites below.

https://ci.nii.ac.jp/

https://www.inbuds.net/

tingdzin
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by tingdzin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:57 am

I assume you've already seen the article by Jan Nattier, in which she convincingly demonstrates that the Heart Sutra was originally a Chinese adaptation of the longer Prajnaparamita literature, back-translated into Sanskrit probably by Xuanzang? It's on the web, I believe.

Malcolm
Posts: 29727
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:03 am

tingdzin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:57 am
I assume you've already seen the article by Jan Nattier, in which she convincingly demonstrates that the Heart Sutra was originally a Chinese adaptation of the longer Prajnaparamita literature, back-translated into Sanskrit probably by Xuanzang? It's on the web, I believe.
This has been convincingly rejected.

tingdzin
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by tingdzin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:19 am

By whom and when? Your bare assertions mean nothing.

Malcolm
Posts: 29727
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:52 am

tingdzin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:19 am
By whom and when? Your bare assertions mean nothing.
viewtopic.php?t=29238&start=20

User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:19 am

To be fair, a bunch of people complained that what was possibly-the-case was being presented as definitely-the-case, and that certain points of evidence seemed exaggerated iirc. Its not really disproven anymore than the original thesis was proven.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

tingdzin
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by tingdzin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:07 am

Yes, that's a fair comment. I suggested Nattier's article as it is the only one that I know of to deal with the subject in any depth (I don't read Japanese either). I am inclined to agree with her because her reasoning seems sound, but I do not regard the issue as being finally settled one way or the other. To reject her thesis out of hand without any supporting evidence, though, is just dogmatism.

User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:10 am

Nattier's thesis was much more reasonable than Jayarava's, which is what the forum is reacting to in the above linked thread. Jayarava builds on Nattier and then goes further, claiming he can pinpoint the Sanskrit to a Tang dynasty forgery.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

tingdzin
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by tingdzin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:14 am

Oh, yes, the thread Malcolm provided sheds some light on this. But I was talking about Nattier's thesis only, and don't care what Jayarava had to say (he says he doesn't even know Chinese). Nattier cannot be held responsible, nor her conclusions dismissed, simply because somebody else tries to exaggerate her case. Meantime, I'll try to find some of Jayarava's "peer-reviewed" articles. Or he could post e-addresses.

User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:38 am

I don't think he comes here often.

‘Epithets of the Mantra’ in the Heart Sutra by Jayarava is like a collection of his best arguments and most interesting insights concerning the sūtra divorced of the more extreme claims like the Tang dynasty forgery piece on his blog.

I don't know if it's peer reviewed. I should figure out, but I'm on my phone.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

Malcolm
Posts: 29727
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:37 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:14 am
Oh, yes, the thread Malcolm provided sheds some light on this. But I was talking about Nattier's thesis only, and don't care what Jayarava had to say (he says he doesn't even know Chinese). Nattier cannot be held responsible, nor her conclusions dismissed, simply because somebody else tries to exaggerate her case. Meantime, I'll try to find some of Jayarava's "peer-reviewed" articles. Or he could post e-addresses.
Not Jayarava, Wongchuck.

Malcolm
Posts: 29727
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:38 pm

Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:38 am
I don't think he comes here often.

‘Epithets of the Mantra’ in the Heart Sutra by Jayarava is like a collection of his best arguments and most interesting insights concerning the sūtra divorced of the more extreme claims like the Tang dynasty forgery piece on his blog.

I don't know if it's peer reviewed. I should figure out, but I'm on my phone.
Peer review is overrated, case in point, jayarava.

tingdzin
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Article about the autorship of the Heart Sutra written in Japanese

Post by tingdzin » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:40 am

The point is
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:37 pm
tingdzin wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:14 am
Oh, yes, the thread Malcolm provided sheds some light on this. But I was talking about Nattier's thesis only, and don't care what Jayarava had to say (he says he doesn't even know Chinese). Nattier cannot be held responsible, nor her conclusions dismissed, simply because somebody else tries to exaggerate her case. Meantime, I'll try to find some of Jayarava's "peer-reviewed" articles. Or he could post e-addresses.
Not Jayarava, Wongchuck.
O.K. then (sigh). Please cite the Wongchuk source, or any reputable summary of the controversy that was written after Nattier's article, and addresses all the salient points. The point is, if there are good reasons to reject Nattier's theory other than pro-India prejudice, I (and many very reputable scholars) are not yet aware of them.

Post Reply

Return to “East Asian Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests