Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:51 pm

Minobu wrote:as for Kundalini and tummo energy if you don't see as i do the relationship , well ......
Have you ever considered that what you are seeing is just a figment of your imagination? What you want to see instead of what is actually there?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:54 pm

Sound familiar? ;)

logic.png
logic.png (97.87 KiB) Viewed 479 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:54 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:as for Kundalini and tummo energy if you don't see as i do the relationship , well ......
Have you ever considered that what you are seeing is just a figment of your imagination? What you want to see instead of what is actually there?

you have decided that i know nothing.
oki doki.
good talk Griborus.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:00 pm

Last chance for romance.

If you wish to actually talk about it i will.
can you show me where i said something wrong as asked before.
instead of this antagonistic approach to discussion.
if you are going to knock me at least point it out
it starts to really show that maybe you can't..

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:17 pm

Minobu wrote:you have decided that i know nothing.
I said nothing of the sort.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Queequeg » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:17 pm

amusing as this back and forth is, please give it a break.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby DharmaChakra » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:46 pm

Namaste,

I will just add one thing to a comment that said that nagas are responsible for cancers and disease. This is such a mundane understanding. In Bhagavat Purana Prariksit Maharaja was bitten by Taxila Naga, it was a curse of a Brahmin, on the outside it was seen as though he was cursed to die within seven days, and Avadhuta Sukadeva taught Him Bhagavta Dharma, that snake bite from Taxila was a naga to open his consciousness in a higher realm to receive very high teachings. What appears for mundane scholars is only external symptoms, the disease, what appears from inside is higher teachings. All shastra has double meaning.....

I have never read a new age book, in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.

With Metta

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:26 pm

DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

I will just add one thing to a comment that said that nagas are responsible for cancers and disease. This is such a mundane understanding. In Bhagavat Purana Prariksit Maharaja was bitten by Taxila Naga, it was a curse of a Brahmin, on the outside it was seen as though he was cursed to die within seven days, and Avadhuta Sukadeva taught Him Bhagavta Dharma, that snake bite from Taxila was a naga to open his consciousness in a higher realm to receive very high teachings. What appears for mundane scholars is only external symptoms, the disease, what appears from inside is higher teachings. All shastra has double meaning.....

I have never read a new age book, in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.

With Metta


all is good my friend...and you don't come off like you got your teachings from a new age book..Far from it...or that you are in it for ulterior reasons.
you are genuine.

you opened up a door for me.
cheers mate
d
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:44 pm

One of my things I try to stick to and sometimes miss my point and become my own enemy of is "All teachings of love and compassion , all philosophies and religions of such and all Dharmas appear in this saha world due to the Turning of the Dharma Wheel by The Buddha .
And I believe He does this with His Sambhogakaya Body in one of His Pure Lands He manifested to benefit sentient beings.

Lately i missed this point and fell off the middle road and into fanatic ville in Minobu land .

Nichiren Shonin was subject to a time that is completely foreign to me and the time I live in.

We have access to all of Buddhism and I appreciate this site for it allows me to grow, the real Muse is not this thread but the whole of the site and it's people.

Thank you all for allowing me to indulge myself .
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:59 pm

DharmaChakra wrote:...in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.
??? :shrug: ???
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
DharmaChakra wrote:...in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.
??? :shrug: ???

I am not speaking for DharmaChakra just saying what I thought he was telling us.

if you take the whole sentence into account:

DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,



I have never read a new age book, in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.

With Metta


He says he never read a new age book and he has a hard time with modern books that teach modern forms and takes about Dharma .

Makes sense to me.

now if you just take this
in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma

on it's own ,it could mean he does not know how to read

i like the guy. He is very welcome in my threads with his non adversarial contributions .
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:34 pm

DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

I will just add one thing to a comment that said that nagas are responsible for cancers and disease. This is such a mundane understanding. In Bhagavat Purana Prariksit Maharaja was bitten by Taxila Naga, it was a curse of a Brahmin, on the outside it was seen as though he was cursed to die within seven days, and Avadhuta Sukadeva taught Him Bhagavta Dharma, that snake bite from Taxila was a naga to open his consciousness in a higher realm to receive very high teachings. What appears for mundane scholars is only external symptoms, the disease, what appears from inside is higher teachings. All shastra has double meaning.....


The Bhagavat Purana has nothing to do with Buddhadharma, at all, being a Vaishnava text.

This is a site for discussing Buddhadharma alone.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Minobu wrote:
Grigoris wrote:
DharmaChakra wrote:...in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.
??? :shrug: ???

I am not speaking for DharmaChakra just saying what I thought he was telling us.

if you take the whole sentence into account:

DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,



I have never read a new age book, in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma.

With Metta


He says he never read a new age book and he has a hard time with modern books that teach modern forms and takes about Dharma .

Makes sense to me.

now if you just take this
in fact I dont know how to read in modern language to understand Dharma

on it's own ,it could mean he does not know how to read

i like the guy. He is very welcome in my threads with his non adversarial contributions .
cf here.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:58 pm

Malcolm wrote:
DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

I will just add one thing to a comment that said that nagas are responsible for cancers and disease. This is such a mundane understanding. In Bhagavat Purana Prariksit Maharaja was bitten by Taxila Naga, it was a curse of a Brahmin, on the outside it was seen as though he was cursed to die within seven days, and Avadhuta Sukadeva taught Him Bhagavta Dharma, that snake bite from Taxila was a naga to open his consciousness in a higher realm to receive very high teachings. What appears for mundane scholars is only external symptoms, the disease, what appears from inside is higher teachings. All shastra has double meaning.....


The Bhagavat Purana has nothing to do with Buddhadharma, at all, being a Vaishnava text.

This is a site for discussing Buddhadharma alone.




I'm not up on Bhagavat Purana but i am up on chakras and Kundalini and drops and six yogas of Naropa . They all have companions in one another in the sense of other religions , philosophies and paths etc.

The thing is for me to actually not shy from knowledge. We all bring our own to this table at the Dharma Wheel.

But it is important to be reminded that
This is a site for discussing Buddhadharma
and that
alone
is a very closed place to be in. unaccepting comes to mind.

fear as well..... I don't think we shy away from other topics and comparisons, after all you enjoyed the whole quantum thing and never asked for it to be quashed in any way for it was not
discussing Buddhadharma alone
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby DGA » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Minobu wrote:I'm not up on Bhagavat Purana but i am up on chakras and Kundalini and drops and six yogas of Naropa . They all have companions in one another in the sense of other religions , philosophies and paths etc.


Companions? Maybe. You may find certain correspondences or points of contact, and that is well and good. But it's inaccurate and disrespectful to claim or imply that a Hindu Purana is relevant to this or any DW discussion because its contents are somehow the same as that of a Tibetan Buddhist tradition. It's not the same. Those differences give them their integrity. Failing to respect those differences is to disrespect the integrity of any tradition, and by extension its practitioners.

Did that purana teach chakras and kundalini and the six yogas of Naropa in a way that is meaningful to a Buddhist, if at all? Who knows--that's beside the point. If you want to understand how Buddhists understand kundalini, which is not the same as tummo, ask in the Tibetan forum.

Besides, DW is explicitly a site for discussing Mahayana Buddhism. There are other venues for comparative religious study. which brings me to this:

But it is important to be reminded that
This is a site for discussing Buddhadharma
and that
alone
is a very closed place to be in. unaccepting comes to mind.

fear as well..... I don't think we shy away from other topics and comparisons, after all you enjoyed the whole quantum thing and never asked for it to be quashed in any way for it was not
discussing Buddhadharma alone


I don't want to get between you and Malcolm here. I just want to point out that finding universalism wanting is not a lack of acceptance or a symptom of closed-mindedness. It is a critical evaluation. If you want to discuss the 6 yogas of Naropa, do so in the Tibetan Buddhist forum, among people who know what they are talking about. If you want to discuss Pure Land teachings in good faith, go to that subforum. This is a good place to discuss Nichiren's Dharma.

Did Nichiren make reference to kundalini? tummo or any of the other six yogas of Naropa?

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:15 pm

DGA wrote:Companions? Maybe. You may find certain correspondences or points of contact, and that is well and good. But it's inaccurate and disrespectful to claim or imply that a Hindu Purana is relevant to this or any DW discussion because its contents are somehow the same as that of a Tibetan Buddhist tradition. It's not the same. Those differences give them their integrity. Failing to respect those differences is to disrespect the integrity of any tradition, and by extension its practitioners.

I am not failing to respect differences in religions.
what about Bon? Are we to not allow Bon discussions because it was a Shamanistic thing in the region before Buddhism was introduced.
What about Shinto, same thing in Japan. And yet" stuff" from both are incorporated into Buddhism in those lands.

You can't take the Vedas out of Buddhism..



Did that purana teach chakras and kundalini and the six yogas of Naropa in a way that is meaningful to a Buddhist,

ya to me.



if at all? Who knows--that's beside the point.

but you are making it a point of contention.



If you want to understand how Buddhists understand kundalini, which is not the same as tummo, ask in the Tibetan forum.

I never said they are the same i said they are .....doesn't matter i know what they are i said "THEY" are to me.




Besides, DW is explicitly a site for discussing Mahayana Buddhism. There are other venues for comparative religious study. which brings me to this:

so you want the current affairs closed down as well...and what about those science and Acadameic threads....this is ....what ever...



But it is important to be reminded that
This is a site for discussing Buddhadharma
and that
alone
is a very closed place to be in. unaccepting comes to mind.

fear as well..... I don't think we shy away from other topics and comparisons, after all you enjoyed the whole quantum thing and never asked for it to be quashed in any way for it was not
discussing Buddhadharma alone




DGA wrote:I don't want to get between you and Malcolm here. I just want to point out that finding universalism wanting is not a lack of acceptance or a symptom of closed-mindedness. It is a critical evaluation. If you want to discuss the 6 yogas of Naropa, do so in the Tibetan Buddhist forum, among people who know what they are talking about. If you want to discuss Pure Land teachings in good faith, go to that subforum. This is a good place to discuss Nichiren's Dharma.

Did Nichiren make reference to kundalini? tummo or any of the other six yogas of Naropa?


i cannot take what i have learned out of any thread i wander into. sorry if thats against the rules ....well one day i guess i'll be banned for talking about Bon or Shinto practices and reference points.

I already stated , if you look and know where to look and are initiated in such you will see reference to Kundalini...it's secret though..

Did Nichiren make reference to kundalini? tummo or any of the other six yogas of Naropa?
[/quote]
Naropa was not the sole person who knew of this stuff...

I went through the completion stage teachings and then I read His book. As I said it was not much different that was shown to me early on my introduction to my first Buddhist sect...Nichiren Shonin's Buddhism...How and what is personal.

as for tummo...the only thing i ever pointed to was that this energy ....is obvious to a person who experiences Kundalini .

and the two words are etymologically linked in Sanskrit for a reason...

done splitting hairs?
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:21 pm

How can Kundalini be absent from Buddhism?

let's not split hairs on semantics...but any Buddhism that is real, Kundalini can be found to be pointed to.

for moi anyway.

it not for you...well thats you and not me.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:44 pm

Did that purana teach chakras and kundalini and the six yogas of Naropa in a way that is meaningful to a Buddhist,

ya to me.


I was actually talking about what Dharmachakra brought to the thread, for I don;t think i know what purnas are , i might have studied them though not knowing the term.

But DharmaChakra 's words , for me anyway, were spot on the mark. I can so no real difference in the essence of the Six yogas of Naropa.
Which is not something i like to discuss openly...it serves me no purpose...it's secret and personal...the stuff in books and what actually happens...is secret...in other words personal ...no need to talk about it and cause yourself harm.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:21 pm

Minobu wrote:I am not failing to respect differences in religions.
what about Bon? Are we to not allow Bon discussions because it was a Shamanistic thing in the region before Buddhism was introduced.
What about Shinto, same thing in Japan. And yet" stuff" from both are incorporated into Buddhism in those lands.

You can't take the Vedas out of Buddhism..
Dharma is Dharma, whether you find it in Bon, Shinto, Episcopalian Christianity, etc...

If it satisfies the Four Dharma Seals, then it is okay.

BUT, this does not mean that Shinto is Bon, or Hinduism is Buddhism, or any other ridiculous claim of this nature.

It is a logic flaw of the type: A dog has four legs, a cow has four legs, thus a dog is a cow.

PS Bon is now considered a school of Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:46 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:I am not failing to respect differences in religions.
what about Bon? Are we to not allow Bon discussions because it was a Shamanistic thing in the region before Buddhism was introduced.
What about Shinto, same thing in Japan. And yet" stuff" from both are incorporated into Buddhism in those lands.

You can't take the Vedas out of Buddhism..
Dharma is Dharma, whether you find it in Bon, Shinto, Episcopalian Christianity, etc...

If it satisfies the Four Dharma Seals, then it is okay.

BUT, this does not mean that Shinto is Bon, or Hinduism is Buddhism, or any other ridiculous claim of this nature.

It is a logic flaw of the type: A dog has four legs, a cow has four legs, thus a dog is a cow.

PS Bon is now considered a school of Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism.



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