Going independent?

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rory
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Re: Going independent?

Post by rory »

Nichirenista;
being a Libertarian & Lesbian let me share a few things with you that will helpfully clear the air. For all the gender-free PC talk I don't know anyone in my big Lesbian community who regards someone with a penis as a female. Lesbians live in a very gendered community so do gay men, male to female transgendered women sadly are brought up to be culturally male & I don't know any lesbians who date them, despite the PC talk. The transgendered usually date and socialize with the transgendered. If you ever come across this issue of gender identity again & inclusion tell anyone that someone with a penis shouldn't be included in Ladies only bathrooms, steamrooms, changing rooms etc...For many of us who have had to fend off unwanted sexual assaults, albeit by drunken males, former husbands, random males in lonely places etc, males exposing themselves to children (happened to me in Central Park as a 7 yr old) penises are frightening; they are weapons.

As for Sherab Dorje, good for you telling him to stop. It is no more your 'problem' or 'issue' that the mentally ill are out of control at your temple, than it is when strange men force their attentions on unsuspecting women. We don't 'ask' for it; it's not our karma, it's not our responsabilty (other than sadly taking self-defense courses).
with gassho and support
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
Myoho-Nameless
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Myoho-Nameless »

Namu Butsu wrote: Just to clarify I do not think anything negative of Nichirenista as I also do not like organizations, temples, etc. I just find it hard to be independent when you may have to rely on material from other Nichiren sects.
True technically, but that is only a problem if you are a dictionary thumping word meaning fundamentalist. Independents can get their material from anywhere they want, and not worry about sticking to an organization's doctrines, and still be independents.

Though "non sectarian nichiren Buddhist", is my go to descriptor, its just not always as handy as "independent". The world is popular because it has been used more and over time.
"Keep The Gods Out Of It. Swear On Your Heads. Which I Will Take If You Break Your Vow."- Geralt of Rivia
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rory
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Re: Going independent?

Post by rory »

And here is a good example of Rissho Kosei Kai (they are a very nice org I belonged years ago ) providing an online sangha:
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/Online_Instructors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This looks quite interesting to me as they will be offering a curriculum and course on the Lotus Sutra.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
shaunc
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Re: Going independent?

Post by shaunc »

Thank-you Rory for providing some common sense advice to Nichirenista in this thread. Unfortunately common sense doesn't seem to be as common as I thought it would. Good luck & best wishes Nichirenista.
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Grigoris
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Grigoris »

rory wrote:As for Sherab Dorje, good for you telling him to stop. It is no more your 'problem' or 'issue' that the mentally ill are out of control at your temple, than it is when strange men force their attentions on unsuspecting women. We don't 'ask' for it; it's not our karma, it's not our responsabilty (other than sadly taking self-defense courses).
Sure, it's just fate, or luck, or divine providence. That's how Buddhists explain it, right?

And I did not say that the behaviour of the people at the temple is nichirenistas "problem" or "issue", I said that his REACTION to their behaviour is HIS problem or issue for HIM. Obviously some of the behaviour that he reports is problematic. You get that from mentally ill or drug addicted people. Ignorance of the causes of their suffering lead to negative behavioural patterns conditioned by their karma. Buddhism 101. But nichirenista can choose to react in any way he wishes. Intentional action, karma.... You know?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

I cannot thank you enough for clarifying this.

rory wrote:Nichirenista;
being a Libertarian & Lesbian let me share a few things with you that will helpfully clear the air. For all the gender-free PC talk I don't know anyone in my big Lesbian community who regards someone with a penis as a female. Lesbians live in a very gendered community so do gay men, male to female transgendered women sadly are brought up to be culturally male & I don't know any lesbians who date them, despite the PC talk. The transgendered usually date and socialize with the transgendered. If you ever come across this issue of gender identity again & inclusion tell anyone that someone with a penis shouldn't be included in Ladies only bathrooms, steamrooms, changing rooms etc...For many of us who have had to fend off unwanted sexual assaults, albeit by drunken males, former husbands, random males in lonely places etc, males exposing themselves to children (happened to me in Central Park as a 7 yr old) penises are frightening; they are weapons.

As for Sherab Dorje, good for you telling him to stop. It is no more your 'problem' or 'issue' that the mentally ill are out of control at your temple, than it is when strange men force their attentions on unsuspecting women. We don't 'ask' for it; it's not our karma, it's not our responsabilty (other than sadly taking self-defense courses).
with gassho and support
Rory
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

rory wrote:And here is a good example of Rissho Kosei Kai (they are a very nice org I belonged years ago ) providing an online sangha:
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/Online_Instructors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This looks quite interesting to me as they will be offering a curriculum and course on the Lotus Sutra.
gassho
Rory
Thank you for these wonderful resources!
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

When the board member announced during the Lotus Sutra study that they aren't interested in studying the Lotus Sutra and that they consider it no more relevant to our lives than Ancient Greek mythology, I was the one who got said board member to stop spouting their insensitive nonsense.

Part of my struggle here has been coming to accept that I am not the unofficial security guard at the temple. That's not my role.
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

dsaly1969 wrote:Um, wow, Nichirenista - you make me very grateful that I do not have to face such problems at the Buddhist center/temple that I frequent as I would not feel comfortable either (and I am a professional social worker). Are there any other options attractive to you in your area? I know some people don't like "online sanghas" but for many it is the only outlet to a larger community of similar minded practitioners. I would think that NShu should have something like that available. I know of a priest in NShu who has helped others in similar circumstances set up a more independent practice. Perhaps you could connect with him? I spent a while exploring NShu before settling into RKK.
Thank you for your compassion. In retrospect, I can't believe I put up with all that I did.
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

shaunc wrote:Thank-you Rory for providing some common sense advice to Nichirenista in this thread. Unfortunately common sense doesn't seem to be as common as I thought it would. Good luck & best wishes Nichirenista.
Thank you for the good wishes! :twothumbsup:
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

Namu Butsu wrote:What in the world? This thread has really taken a weird twist
Hmmm that seems a little broad-brush. Here in Los Angeles there have been cooperative efforts among Nichiren Shu, Rissho Kosei-kai (RKK has beliefs and a liturgy fairly consistent with Nichiren Shu - years ago there was some thought about becoming an official lay organization but they decided not to do so) and Tendai including combined social events and guest speaking at each other's temples or centers. They also have congenial relations with the local Shin temples. That does not seem to be "always at each others throats".

I actually do like some of the modern teachers of Nichiren Shu. I have much respect for Rev. Myokei and some others. Nichiren shu does seem a bit more liberal, but I have no clue if its only here in the west. Regardless there is always some sort of battle with 'doctrine' and 'practice'.

Rissho Kosei Kai doesnt really claim to be a Nichiren sect. They respect Nichiren, but none really seem to practice Nichiren Buddhism. I have no bones to pick with Rissho as they are pretty liberal too.

Its just the history of Nichiren buddhism and argumentations about all sorts of issues is constant.

I dont want to derail the thread.

Just to clarify I do not think anything negative of Nichirenista as I also do not like organizations, temples, etc. I just find it hard to be independent when you may have to rely on material from other Nichiren sects.
PS Kudos to nicherinista for his volunteer work at the temple!
Sherab Dorje you have always been rude on this forum. Big heads are only big egos. Luckily your not your ego, but you sure are an ass. Maybe there is a tibetan mantra that can make you a non-ass ass? :tongue:

Thank you for the feedback.
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

Myoho-Nameless wrote:
Namu Butsu wrote: Just to clarify I do not think anything negative of Nichirenista as I also do not like organizations, temples, etc. I just find it hard to be independent when you may have to rely on material from other Nichiren sects.
True technically, but that is only a problem if you are a dictionary thumping word meaning fundamentalist. Independents can get their material from anywhere they want, and not worry about sticking to an organization's doctrines, and still be independents.

Though "non sectarian nichiren Buddhist", is my go to descriptor, its just not always as handy as "independent". The world is popular because it has been used more and over time.
Good points. Thank you. :thumbsup:
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Seishin
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Seishin »

Has this experience put you off going to another temple?
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nichirenista
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has beneficially contributed to this thread. I want to clarify two points here though:

1. I mean no disrespect to the sensei, who has always been personally helpful and warm to me.

2. The Japanese-American members of the temple accepted me when they saw how sincere I was in my practice.

That much said, I agree entirely that the temple is out of control. Describing some of the situations I have on this thread, I find myself having trouble believing it. Some of this stuff reads like fiction.

With regard to the mentally ill homeless people who often show up at the temple for a free meal, this is actually something the entire city in which the temple is located is struggling with. It was recently revealed that a certain nearby city was providing homeless, mentally ill, people oneway Greyhound bus tickets to my city. My city is now overwhelmed with homeless, mentally ill people.

At any rate, if anyone reading this has figured out which temple in which city I'm referring to (I have purposefully not mentioned the temple or city by name), please know that I do not mean any disrespect to the sensei or the Japanese-American members. I'm not sure why the temple is struggling with these particular issues, but I don't feel I can handle them much anymore.
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Re: Going independent?

Post by nichirenista »

Seishin wrote:Has this experience put you off going to another temple?
No, it hasn't. In fact, the difficulties at the Nichiren temple have been so distressing for me that they have driven me to do something most Nichiren Buddhists would never dream of doing: looking into other denominations. I've attended meditations at the local Tibetan center, and a few weeks ago I even -- gasp! -- attended services at a Jodo Shinshu (Pure Land) temple. I couldn't help but feel envious of what I saw at the Tibetan and Pure Land temples: well organized infrastructure. They seemed "functional." For a brief moment there I even considered abandoning Nichiren Buddhism altogether.
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Seishin
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Seishin »

I'm glad you're looking at other temples. :smile: Do not be afraid to look into other schools and Rory has given some good links :twothumbsup: I wish you the best of luck.

Gassho,
Seishin
dsaly1969
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Re: Going independent?

Post by dsaly1969 »

rory wrote:And here is a good example of Rissho Kosei Kai (they are a very nice org I belonged years ago ) providing an online sangha:
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rkina.org/onlineministry/Online_Instructors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This looks quite interesting to me as they will be offering a curriculum and course on the Lotus Sutra.
gassho
Rory
Don't forget the link to the RKK publications as most of them are available as free pdf downloads at the link below including the Kyoten (daily service book which is very similar to Nichiren Shu), Threefold Lotus Sutra, and Buddhism for Today. These are good study resources for "Ekayana" (One Vehicle - Lotus Sutra concept) Buddhism.

http://www.rk-world.org/publications.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Son of Buddha
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Son of Buddha »

nichirenista wrote:
Seishin wrote:Has this experience put you off going to another temple?
No, it hasn't. In fact, the difficulties at the Nichiren temple have been so distressing for me that they have driven me to do something most Nichiren Buddhists would never dream of doing: looking into other denominations. I've attended meditations at the local Tibetan center, and a few weeks ago I even -- gasp! -- attended services at a Jodo Shinshu (Pure Land) temple. I couldn't help but feel envious of what I saw at the Tibetan and Pure Land temples: well organized infrastructure. They seemed "functional." For a brief moment there I even considered abandoning Nichiren Buddhism altogether.
You don't have to give up Nichiren Buddhism to practice with other denominations, you could juggle them all till you make your mind up about where you want be and what practices/doctrine you feel like following.

Have you considered sticking around and motivating/organizing people in the temple to fix the problems in the temple?

Peace and love
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rory
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Re: Going independent?

Post by rory »

The temple Board is at odds and it will probably have to get worse before they sort it out and Nichirenista should leave since it interferes with his practice.

As for TB and Jodo Shinshu. I've tried them, TB as evinced by our charming SDorje has a very fixed idea about karma, you made it and if you suffer now you have to deal with it. They do not have the East Asian dynamic attitude (they say they do with their Vajrayana but it's only for the ultimate highest etc practitioner, which isn't me or you etc..) Of course this isn't suprprising as they left the mainstream of East Asian Buddhism after 1 debate with a Chinese priest about Zen.http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... mye-Debate TB practitioners also don't study the sutras, just the 'pith' remarks of their lama/guru and commentaries. I personally didn't care for it at all, I'm very independent, like to study on my own and want to avoid lama/sensei worship...

Now for Jodo Shinshu, I attended a temple in '96 and they were getting their act together and have done a great job with resurgance. But I agree with Nichiren about Pure Land only practice. It creates an anti-intellectual attitude, a real passivity, and isn't dynamic about changing your karma or helping others which is what I appreciate about the Nichiren schools.

If there is a Chinese, Vietnamese temple you might enjoy that as it's usually Ch'an/Zen + Pure Land and you could also practice Daimoku and study the Lotus Sutra.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/
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Grigoris
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Re: Going independent?

Post by Grigoris »

rory wrote:As for TB and Jodo Shinshu. I've tried them, TB as evinced by our charming SDorje has a very fixed idea about karma, you made it and if you suffer now you have to deal with it. They do not have the East Asian dynamic attitude (they say they do with their Vajrayana but it's only for the ultimate highest etc practitioner, which isn't me or you etc..) Of course this isn't suprprising as they left the mainstream of East Asian Buddhism after 1 debate with a Chinese priest about Zen.http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... mye-Debate TB practitioners also don't study the sutras, just the 'pith' remarks of their lama/guru and commentaries.
Sorry, but this is just complete hogwash. If you are going to give the man advice, and by all means do so, at least make sure it is based in fact on not on skewed misinterpretations.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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