Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

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nichirenista
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Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:49 am

I don't mean to start "trouble" here. I know that some of the things I posted are somewhat controversial, perhaps. I just have an honest question that I didn't think fit into a previous thread…. My question is regarding the statement:
illarraza wrote:
"Its a life philosophy, not a religion". Just ask SGI. They too could care less what one believes as long as you donate loads of money, are a true believer in the "eternal SGI mentor", or you are a celebrity. For example, Tina Turner has a giant statue of Shakyamuni Buddha on the altar, Roberto Baggio prays with Theravadan priests, and both he and Tina Turner actively support the Dalai Lama. At least your Sensei doesn't have a statue of Jesus on the altar like Reverend Ryuei "Shonin".

Illarraza
Is it true that this particular sensei has a statue of Jesus on his altar? I actually did a Google search to see if I could find a picture, and I couldn't.

markatex
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by markatex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:33 am

I have no idea, but I can't imagine that he does. I usually ignore any posts with illaraza's name at the top; i wish everyone would do the same.

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rory
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by rory » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:22 pm

markatex wrote:I have no idea, but I can't imagine that he does. I usually ignore any posts with illaraza's name at the top; i wish everyone would do the same.
Kindly don't comment on someone's veracity if you are ignorant of the issue. I have no idea if he still has it on his altar but Illaraza is quite correct I remember way back in the Nshu yahoo group this came up and here:

http://fraughtwithperil.com/ryuei/2004/ ... -apostate/
http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Ryuei/ChristianFAQ.html
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:44 pm

Thanks for the links. I don't know why, but I find that to be disturbing.

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rory
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by rory » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:19 pm

nichirenista wrote:Thanks for the links. I don't know why, but I find that to be disturbing.

It's not my cup of tea either, there's also this:
http://theidproject.org/blog/paul-s/201 ... ies-part-4

I frankly don't want to have to deal with people's cultural christianity and unexamined monotheistic biases. I prefer the Buddhism and polytheism of the Japanese. So I stick with my Japanese sect, Japanese priest. My gongyo book has deities not 'benevolent forces'.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

markatex
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by markatex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:53 pm

rory wrote:Kindly don't comment on someone's veracity if you are ignorant of the issue.
:roll:


Anyway, I'm a bit surprised and find it off-putting, but I'm not the world's biggest fan of Ryuei Shonin to begin with. I'm sure some people wouldn't appreciate me saying that, but I don't really care.

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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by markatex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:57 pm

nichirenista wrote:I don't mean to start "trouble" here.
Oh sweetie, can we just dispense with this little pretense?

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:25 pm

markatex wrote:
nichirenista wrote:I don't mean to start "trouble" here.
Oh sweetie, can we just dispense with this little pretense?
Um. Yeah.

A few threads I've started have been locked. And in a recent post I referred to the fact that I'm a white man who thought he would grow up to be brown. I write about my life experience, and due to the fact that my life experience has sometimes been unconventional, I believe it sometimes appears to others that I am trying to purposefully be controversial. All I was trying to say is that it is not my intention to be controversial.

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:34 pm

rory wrote:
nichirenista wrote:Thanks for the links. I don't know why, but I find that to be disturbing.

It's not my cup of tea either, there's also this:
http://theidproject.org/blog/paul-s/201 ... ies-part-4

I frankly don't want to have to deal with people's cultural christianity and unexamined monotheistic biases. I prefer the Buddhism and polytheism of the Japanese. So I stick with my Japanese sect, Japanese priest. My gongyo book has deities not 'benevolent forces'.
gassho
Rory
Thank you. I think I figured out why I find it disturbing, and disconcerting. The altar is supposed to be where you place things that have meaning. It therefore makes no sense to place something on the altar as a means of demonstrating that it has no meaning to you anymore. If a statue of Jesus has no meaning for you then it shouldn't be on your altar; and if a statue of Jesus does have religious meaning for you then you probably shouldn't even have a Buddhist altar at all. I mean, I know Christians can practice Buddhism; but they do not negate Christianity in the process and they still identify as "Christian." A Nichiren Buddhist priest having a statue of Jesus on his altar makes as much sense as "Jews for Jesus." (I remember being in New York City back in the 90s and someone walking up to me and handing me a "Jews for Jesus" flyer. I laughed. I literally thought they were joking.)

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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:21 pm

nichirenista wrote:The altar is supposed to be where you place things that have meaning. It therefore makes no sense to place something on the altar as a means of demonstrating that it has no meaning to you anymore.
My impression was the Jesus embodied his ambivalence about his Catholic background. On one hand, his Catholic background was the wellspring of certain ideas and values that he still cherishes, even as he renounced its salvation.

I'm not sure where his approach took him - he wrote those essays a long time ago. Still, I find it interesting. Not that I'd follow it in my own practice, but my curiosity is certainly piqued.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by markatex » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:48 pm

I've never met him, only interacted with him online. He seems very cerebral. That's interesting reasoning, to be sure. I'm not as black and white in my thinking as some people, so I'm not about to sit here and say he's going to roast in the fires of hell as some here are wont to do (illaraza).

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:07 am

markatex wrote:I've never met him, only interacted with him online. He seems very cerebral. That's interesting reasoning, to be sure. I'm not as black and white in my thinking as some people, so I'm not about to sit here and say he's going to roast in the fires of hell as some here are wont to do (illaraza).
Well I certainly never said he was going to roast in hell. It's just confusing is all.

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:08 am

Queequeg wrote:
nichirenista wrote:The altar is supposed to be where you place things that have meaning. It therefore makes no sense to place something on the altar as a means of demonstrating that it has no meaning to you anymore.
My impression was the Jesus embodied his ambivalence about his Catholic background. On one hand, his Catholic background was the wellspring of certain ideas and values that he still cherishes, even as he renounced its salvation.

I'm not sure where his approach took him - he wrote those essays a long time ago. Still, I find it interesting. Not that I'd follow it in my own practice, but my curiosity is certainly piqued.
Well as a former Catholic myself, I can't say that my ambivalence about my Catholic background is something that I find inspiring enough to want to mark it on my altar.

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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by Myoho-Nameless » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:32 am

Ryuei has struck me as a bit of a trouble maker. I wonder if this is some motivation. angering fuddy duddies appeals to me too. just to hear them squeal in disapproval. "OMG you put a statue of JESUS on your ALTAR? Th...th.....thats......insanity!".

not the purest motivation, sure.

when my fly trap flowers, I will use it's flowers on my altar. Not only do they come from a carnivorous plant, they are white, and have an even number of petals. muwahahahahaaaa.
I just don't belong.

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nichirenista
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by nichirenista » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:56 am

LOL :twothumbsup: you're on a roll tonight. You made me laugh again. Love the idea of Venus flytrap on the altar.

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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by robban » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:08 pm

I see Jesus as a enlightened man, not a son of a god.
Jesus was like the Buddha in many ways. (According to scriptures he may have met Buddhist monks)
He met people, he knew their desires, attachments and weaknesses.
He gave them ways to end their sufferings.

I would never put a statue of Jesus in my butsudan. I don't even think a statue of Shakyamuni is suitable.
I tried it ones but it felt weird having a wooden statue staring at me.
( but i like to look at "the Shakyamuni signs" on the gohonzon when i chant)

I'm a godfather for a couple of children. They were baptized in a christian church but i didn't mind being in the church. I dont believe in a christian godso therefor it doesnt matter to me.
The same would go if i were to put a Jesus statue on an altar. I would do so cause he's a rollmodel
for many people.
English is not my first language

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rory
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by rory » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:10 pm

You do realize that the historical Jesus was a marginal prophet who preached the end of the world. His followers thought he was the Jewish Messiah and he'd return bringing the literal end of the world. Didn't happen...a lot of sycretization with the polytheistic Greek and Roman religion occurred with a big dose of Platonic and Cynic philosophy, that led to our notions of modern Christianity. Try reading Bart Ehrman. (prof of religion UNC)
http://ehrmanblog.org/
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

robban
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by robban » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:49 pm

rory wrote:You do realize that the historical Jesus was a marginal prophet who preached the end of the world. His followers thought he was the Jewish Messiah and he'd return bringing the literal end of the world. Didn't happen...a lot of sycretization with the polytheistic Greek and Roman religion occurred with a big dose of Platonic and Cynic philosophy, that led to our notions of modern Christianity. Try reading Bart Ehrman. (prof of religion UNC)
http://ehrmanblog.org/
gassho
Rory
Very interesting! Sure have to check this out.
Thanks.

What did Jesus mean about the end of the world?
Please explain.

I havent heard about Bert Ehrman before.
It seems that you are a true Ehrman believer?!
English is not my first language

robban
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by robban » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:02 pm

A quick look at Barts blog.
I bet he loves being in the spotlight :bow:
English is not my first language

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rory
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Re: Jesus on the Nichiren Buddhist altar?

Post by rory » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:22 pm

Very interesting! Sure have to check this out.
Thanks.

What did Jesus mean about the end of the world?
Please explain.

I havent heard about Bert Ehrman before.
It seems that you are a true Ehrman believer?!
Here is a link explaining the end of the world mentality:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ptist.html

I'm ethnically Jewish, I have and had no interest in Jesus, but do know quite a bit about ancient Roman polytheism and know that no Jews of the period (and there were many literate Judaeans writing histories, commentaries etc) wrote about historical Jesus.
There are many scholars who have written about the historicity of Jesus, I mentioned Bart Ehrman as he's a solid and successful scholarl and author who explains for a regular audience what's going on in current Jesus scholarship.
gassho
Rory
ps; what is your main language?
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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