Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

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Queequeg
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Queequeg wrote:勤行 gongyo

善戒経云。若無菩薩性者。雖復発心勤行精進雖復発心懃修精進。終不能得阿耨菩提

From Chu Hokkekyo, Nichiren's annotated Lotus Sutra.

'Gotta do gongyo to attain bodhi.'
I live in America and speak English! What dose this suppose to mean to me?

Let us see a real translation by Nichiren Buddhist and direct us to your source!

I suppose you know how to read and properly translate what you have posted!
You're the only one in the world teaching what Nichiren taught. You translate it for us. Better yet, tell us what it means.

BTW, I edited my last post and linked to a source where you can read the ChuHokkekyo.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

Never mind, Richard. You know all there is to know about Nichiren - you know his soul, right? We're American and we speak American. Who needs to know no Chinese!
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Queequeg wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Queequeg wrote:勤行 gongyo

善戒経云。若無菩薩性者。雖復発心勤行精進雖復発心懃修精進。終不能得阿耨菩提

From Chu Hokkekyo, Nichiren's annotated Lotus Sutra.

'Gotta do gongyo to attain bodhi.'
I live in America and speak English! What dose this suppose to mean to me?

Let us see a real translation by Nichiren Buddhist and direct us to your source!

I suppose you know how to read and properly translate what you have posted!
You're the only one in the world teaching what Nichiren taught. You translate it for us. Better yet, tell us what it means.

BTW, I edited my last post and linked to a source where you can read the ChuHokkekyo.
:shrug: What is this? This is what you offer and really expect those of us with Common Sense to believe and take your words as truth?

Do Me a favor... what dose the link you provided say?

I speak and write English! I suppose you have read this entire document and fully understand the Language and are capable of a thorough translation of such language!

I'm patiently awaiting your presentation in English!
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

The text is there.
The link is there.
The translation roughly is, 'you need to read/recite the text to attain enlightenment.'

Gongyo, as in reciting sutras and commentaries, has been the means of studying and passing on Dharma since the time of the Buddha. This has been the thread that has connected us to the Buddha through the centuries. It is why reciting sutras and commentaries have and continue to be practices that accrue merit for those who undertaken them. It is why sutras including the lotus extol the benefit of reading and reciting, copying and explaining the sutras, even a few lines.

The Daimoku is a special teaching - the most special at this time and place. It can be said in 5 or 7 characters, or 24 characters, or Namu Ichijo Myoten, or
namah samanta-buddhānām
om a ā am ah
sarva-buddha-jna-sākshebhyah
gagana-sambhavālakshani
saddharma-pundarīka-sūtra
jah hūm bam hoh vajrārakshaman
hūm svāhā

Hail to all the Buddhas! Three-bodied Thus Come Ones! Open the door to, show me, cause me to awaken to, and to enter into the wisdom and insight of all the Buddhas. You who are like space and who have freed yourself from form! Oh, Sutra of the White Lotus of the Correct Law! Cause me to enter into, to be everywhere within, to dwell in, and to rejoice in you. Oh, Adamantine Protector! Oh, empty, aspect-free, and desire-free sutra!
But in this time and place it is NMRK.

If you want to be Hoshi, a teacher of the Dharma, you need to expand your understanding of the tradition you purport to transmit, and certainly check the arrogance.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

There are questions of authenticity, but I suspect you accept the text - conversation between a sage and unenlightened man includes this description of the Hokke Gyoja, Votary of the Lotus:
The unenlightened man wandered about, pondering what was before him, now pausing in thought, now resuming his steps. Suddenly he came upon a sage. Observing his actions, he saw that the sage was reciting the Lotus Sutra; his voice stirred the seeker deeply. Peering in at the quiet window of the sage’s retreat, he found that the sage was resting his elbows on his desk, pondering the sutra’s profound meaning.
Reciting the sutra is to study it. It is the practice of committing it to memory. It is also merit producing in itself. The Sutra in my hand says so.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Queequeg wrote:Never mind, Richard. You know all there is to know about Nichiren - you know his soul, right? We're American and we speak American. Who needs to know no Chinese!
Where in Nichiren's Teachings or even in Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra dose it say you must know any particular language in order to achieve Enlightenment?

You obviously are a runner, "never mind" says all.

You are also very very amusing my friend.
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Queequeg wrote:The text is there.
The link is there.
The translation roughly is, 'you need to read/recite the text to attain enlightenment.'

Gongyo, as in reciting sutras and commentaries, has been the means of studying and passing on Dharma since the time of the Buddha. This has been the thread that has connected us to the Buddha through the centuries. It is why reciting sutras and commentaries have and continue to be practices that accrue merit for those who undertaken them. It is why sutras including the lotus extol the benefit of reading and reciting, copying and explaining the sutras, even a few lines.

The Daimoku is a special teaching - the most special at this time and place. It can be said in 5 or 7 characters, or 24 characters, or Namu Ichijo Myoten, or
namah samanta-buddhānām
om a ā am ah
sarva-buddha-jna-sākshebhyah
gagana-sambhavālakshani
saddharma-pundarīka-sūtra
jah hūm bam hoh vajrārakshaman
hūm svāhā

Hail to all the Buddhas! Three-bodied Thus Come Ones! Open the door to, show me, cause me to awaken to, and to enter into the wisdom and insight of all the Buddhas. You who are like space and who have freed yourself from form! Oh, Sutra of the White Lotus of the Correct Law! Cause me to enter into, to be everywhere within, to dwell in, and to rejoice in you. Oh, Adamantine Protector! Oh, empty, aspect-free, and desire-free sutra!
But in this time and place it is NMRK.

If you want to be Hoshi, a teacher of the Dharma, you need to expand your understanding of the tradition you purport to transmit, and certainly check the arrogance.
:shrug: I am a 'Teacher of The Law' my friend. When you realize this you will calm down go back and research what I have taught you and realize your lack of faith in 'The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!

This is a very important Doctrinal Discussion yet you provide nothing useful to those who are trying to learn and research Nichiren's Teachings.

It seems you have been exposed as one who has not yet read and truly studied Nichiren Buddhism.

But now you have an opportunity to read this thread and learn how to approach The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin and study them with a mind if faith!

Congratulations

Sincerely Richard H Brown A Foremost Votary of The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Queequeg wrote:There are questions of authenticity, but I suspect you accept the text - conversation between a sage and unenlightened man includes this description of the Hokke Gyoja, Votary of the Lotus:
The unenlightened man wandered about, pondering what was before him, now pausing in thought, now resuming his steps. Suddenly he came upon a sage. Observing his actions, he saw that the sage was reciting the Lotus Sutra; his voice stirred the seeker deeply. Peering in at the quiet window of the sage’s retreat, he found that the sage was resting his elbows on his desk, pondering the sutra’s profound meaning.
Reciting the sutra is to study it. It is the practice of committing it to memory. It is also merit producing in itself. The Sutra in my hand says so.
:shrug: Are you serious Q? You actually picked this Major Writing of Nichiren's to make your point?

Think my friend! Your choice of this Teaching of Nichiren is quite telling if your inability to comprehend Buddhism!

I will suggest you go back and read this Gosho first before you copy and paste a portion of your liking.

Here's Two Versions:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1 ... Part%20One
And
http://nichiren.info/gosho/Conversation-1.htm

When you have read this! I will then addressed any questions or points you have to offer!

I'm smiling Q!
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Nichiren Teaches :reading:

"Since the beginningless past, we living beings have never for an instant been separated from this wish-granting jewel of Myoho-renge-kyo.

But, befuddled by the wine of ignorance, we fail to realize that it is hidden in the lining of our robes, and we are content with merely a little gain.11 Though we are living beings who, simply by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, could quickly attain Buddhahood, we observe petty precepts such as the five precepts or the ten good precepts, being reborn as a result in the realm of heavenly beings, as deities such as Brahmā or Shakra, and thinking that a wonderful accomplishment.

Or at times we are born as human beings, becoming rulers of various countries, high ministers, court nobles, or other court officials, and we think ourselves incomparably happy.12 Thus we content ourselves with such little gains and are delighted with them.

However, the Buddha has taught that these accomplishments are mere prosperity in a dream, a phantom joy, and that we should simply accept and uphold the Lotus Sutra and quickly become Buddhas."

"http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/176
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

:reading: Nichiren Teaches

"The Buddha has in fact said that in the evil world of the latter age, those who preach this sutra as the sutra itself directs will face many enemies.

And yet there are some persons in the world now who say that they uphold the sutra, that they read it and carry out its practices, and yet they have no enemies. Are the words of the Buddha false, then? Or is the Lotus not a true sutra?

If we assume that the Lotus is a true sutra, then are these people of our time perhaps reading it in an untruthful manner, are they in fact not true practitioners of the sutra?

We must consider the question very carefully and clarify the matter."

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/176

There are no arguments based on Nichiren's Buddhism which those armed heavily, in Faith Practice Study can't deal with nor learn from. I appreciate making history with all those involved with this historic and groundbreaking revelation. We are opening Nichiren Buddhism to all regardless of their situation.

Buddhism is based on Faith! Wisdom arises naturally once one rejoices on hearing the name and characters of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!

Hail Nichiren!
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

History of Gongyo :reading:

History of Gongyo
Good morning. The lecture today will continue with last months subject of Buddhist practice.

Introduction

The questions for today, listed in this months schedule, center on Gongyo:

What in brief is the History of Gongyo?
What format did Nichiren Daishonin set down for the observance of Gongyo,
and where is it stated?
When was the five-prayer morning and evening format for Gongyo established, and by whom?
Is there any other acceptable format for the observance of Gongyo?
Do priests and lay believers do Gongyo following the same format?
Believers have often been encouraged to do a "vigorous" Gongyo; when observing Gongyo is it more important to maintain a particular rythm or to enunciate each syllable correctly?
Is there a particular demeanor one should have while doing Gongyo?
Is it appropriate to affect an unnatural quality of voice or posture in efforts to observe Gongyo more correctly?
[Questions and Answers, "extended" prayers and when to add an extra prayer]
Taking these questions together, I'll begin with an overview of sorts, an introduction to the history of Gongyo, and then cover the questions about correct demeanor and attitude towards Gongyo. I'm going to be using this chalk-board during the lecture today -- can everyone see it? (Note efforts in the original text were made to amplify the original text where illustrations were used. If I can I'll try to find out if there are graphics that can compensate for what was lost in transmission between this text (which I got from Artie from New York) and how it should be presented.

Overview:Oral Legacy

First of all, the customs and practices of Nichiren Shoshu have grown, of course, out of the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin, but the Daishonin himself left no "rule" book on Buddhist Practice. Also with regard to the transmission of orthodox doctrine and practice, there has always been a strong tradition in Nichiren Shoshu of oral teachings. In other words, if you are looking for a seven hundred year old document that states Gongyo is to be done exactly in the manner that you learned to do it, you aren't going to find it. Much of what I learned as a young acolyte at Taisekiji about the rules and regulations of Nichiren Shoshu was presented through lectures and instructions by senior priests. What they taught, though, was based on the written and oral legacy of Nichiren Daishonin, and on the records left by Nikko Shonin and the successive high priests. To take a single instance, the color of this robe I'm wearing is the same color as the robe that Nichiren Daishonin wore. We know that he wore gray robes because he said so in the Gosho. Although it was not codified as a regulation of Nichiren Shoshu until quite a while after the Daishonin's passing, Nichiren Shoshu priests, nonetheless, always wore gray robes.

A Brief History of Gongyo
and origin of the Five/3 format.

With respect to Gongyo, Nichiren Daishonin addressed himself to the subject direct in the "Gasshui Gosho", a letter to the wife of Shijo Kingo. He says therein:

Among those twenty-eight chapters of the Lotus Sutra, the noblest are the Hoben and Juryo Chapters. The other chapters are all secondary. Therefore, for daily practice, recite the extended parts of the Hoben and Juryo chapters. When you recite the Hoben and Juryo chapters, the virtues of the other chapters are naturally contained ithin them."
In "Reply to Soya" he says:

"I wrote down the extended part of the Hoben chapter for you. Recite it together with the Jiga-ge of the Juryo chapter that I wrote for you previously."
These two writings are specific references to the Daishonin's "format" for Gongyo. He says you must recite the Hoben and Jigage chapters. That is clear, isn't it?

Naturally, Nikko Shonin and the successive High Priests left records that contain references to Gongyo. For instance, the ninth High Priest Nichiu Shonin (1419-1482), whose writings were recorded by his disciples, states in the "Kegi Sho" that on the first and the fifteenth of each month, the first prayer for Gongyo should be done while facing east. According to the Ushidan Sho Kiki Gaki Sho, Nichiu Shonin did Gongyo three times a day: in the morning, at noon, and in the evening. The Dosan Mikyo Shidai, a record dated 1535, left by the twelfth High Priest, Nicchin Shonin, states the following about the format of Gongyo:

"The first prayer in the morning should be done at the Miedo Temple [on the Head Temple Grounds]. The Hoben and Juryo chapters should be recited three times each, followed by three hundred Daimoku."
This first prayer was a prayer of Gratitude to the True Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin, the second High Priest, Nikko Shonin and the third High Priest, Nichimoku Shonin.

"The second prayer, one of gratitude for the Buddhist Gods, was offered at the Ten Kyo Temple [also on the head temple grounds], and consisted of reciting the Hoben and Juryo chapters once each followed by one hundred Daimoku.
"The third prayer, one of gratitude to the Gohonzon, was the recitation of the Hoben and Juryo Chapters once each, followed by one hundred Daimoku at the main Temple.
"The fourth prayer, for Kosenrufu, was offered at the Miedo Temple again, with the Hoben and Juryo chapters being recited once each, followed by one hundred Daimoku.
"The Fifth prayer, followed the same format as the fourth prayer, and was offered at the Mitsubo [also on the Head Temple Grounds] for the ancestors of all priests and believers.
The first prayer of the evening was the same as the third morning prayer, and the second evening prayer was the same as the second morning prayer. The third evening prayer was offered at the "Miedo" temple in gratitude to Nichiren Daishonin and the two successive High Priests. The fourth evening prayer, also at the Miedo Temple, was the recitation of the Juryo Chapter three times, followed by three hundred Daimoku for Kosenrufu. The fifth evening prayer was the same as the fifth morning prayer.

So the record of 1535 states that both morning and evening prayer and the second evening Gongyo consisted of five prayers. At the Head Temple, the prayers were offered moving from one Temple to another. The sutra and Daimoku were chanted at a specific place for a specific prayer and then they moved on to the next temple. The one hundred or three hundred Daimoku following the Sutra recitation may not seem like much to you, but remember they weren't chanting at the "speedy" pace many of you have become accustomed to using. We estimate, from the amount of time it took them to complete Gongyo, that one hundred Daimoku must have taken at least five minutes. The main temple, was of course different from the one you know today, but many of you may have seen the Miedo temple, or at least you have seen photographs of it. Ten Kyo was a platform built specifically for offering prayers for the protection of the Buddhist Gods. Mutsubo is part of the priests' residence.

Two hundred years later, in 1740, the 31st High Priest, Nichiin Shonin, recorded a five-prayer morning, three-prayer evening format in the Toke Kiki Gaki. By this time people were doing one entire morning or evening Gongyo in one place, and rather than chanting Daimoku between prayers, they were doing Sansho of Hiki-Daimoku [Hiki-Daimoku (slow recital three times), and then chanting Daimoku after the sutra recitation was completed. That format, however, was still different from the recitation we are familiar with today. For instance, the third evening prayer was the recitation of the Jiga-ge three times. You know, the section that begins,

Ji ga toku bur-rai
Sho kyo sho kosshu...,
...That is the Jiga-ge. So the Jiga-ge was recited three times and that was the third evening prayer. For the fourth prayer of morning Gongyo, the hoben chapter was recited alone, without the Juryo Chapter.

By the beginning of the twentieth century, people were practicing Gongyo with almost the same five-prayer morning, three-prayer evening format that is familiar today. They were not, however, praying for their personal desires during the fourth prayer. Rather if they had a sick relative or some urgent concern they added an extra prayer to Gongyo. That is, they made an additional rectiation and then offered the special prayer.

You can see that, while the format of Gongyo has shifted a bit over time, the recitation of the Hoben and Juryo Chapters has been constant since the days of the Daishonin.

Questions and answers

Question: Are the Hoben and Juryo chapters that we have been taught ot recite the "extended" chapters mentioned in Nichiren Daishonin's writings?
Question: Well then, how do we decide whether to add an extra prayer or not? Also, why do you sometimes recite the Hoben and Juryo chapters only one time each at meetings before beginning Daimoku?
About the first part of your question, you must know how you feel about your life with respect to prayer. It is a natural feeling. Don't you know how you feel? Adding an extra prayer to Gongyo involves natural feeling towards Gohonzon, not strategy. The Komon Shu Chi Soku (1927), the record that states if something is deeply affecting your life, then you may recite the Hoben and Juryo chapters one extra time and pray for your deep concern, was written at a time when there was a stricter tradition and there was no prayer for personal concerns included in the format for Gongyo.

Today, the fourth prayer of Gongyo allows for personal prayers. In the fourth prayer of Gongyo we pray for Kosen-rufu first, and then we make our personal prayers. This indicates that Kosen-rufu is paramount and that our personal prayers should be under the umbrella of such faith. Once again, I hasten to add, this is not a technique. I am definately not suggesting the rediculous practice such as making up a list of wishes and trying to convince the Gohonzon that you want them fulfiled for the "sake" of Kosen-rufu. "I need this new aparment with a new wardrobe (car, stereo, vcr, million dollars, etceteras...) I promise I will spend all my time working for Kosen-rufu." The idea of bargaining like that is nonsense, and is deeply insulting to the Gohonzon. If you really care that much for Kosen-rufu, you will devote yourself wholeheartedly, million dollars or no. If adding on an extra prayer becomes that much of a question, I would say please chant Daimoku -- as sincerely as possible -- instead.

Attitude and Demeanor

The second part of your question touches on the issues of attitude and demeanor during Gongyo, as well as format. When I first came here from Japan, my strongest initial impression was that everyone wanted to do the speediest Gongyo possible. I must say, I didn't really know what to think. It was as if the goal was to fly through Gongyo. I was accustomed to hearing Soka Gakkai members in Japan chanting slurred, "flying" daimoku, but I had never heard anyone reciting the Sutra in the manner I heard when I arrived here. It was not only untraditional -- frankly, it didn't sound very nice. When I asked some members why they did Gongyo that way, many of them said that they were taught that they should try to do Gongyo like that, adding that, if they did Gongyo at a slower pace, they wouldn't have time to chant Daimoku.

I introduced the format of reciting the entire sutra book through once, followed by Daimoku and the offering of all the prayers at the end, to stress to believers that chanting pure Daimoku is the most important thing in Buddhist Practice. If someone is racing through a five-prayer-morning and three-prayer evening recitation, and even at that, having only enough time left over for five minutes of hurried Daimoku, it is definately preferable to recite the Hoben and Juryo Chapters once steadily and rhythmically, and to follow that with chanting of pure Daimoku.

I learned this from the late high Priest, Nittatsu Shonin. In the course of fulfilling hte responsibilities of his position, he naturally found it necessary to visit many Nichiren Shoshu Temples for one reason or another. When he visited Tokyo, he usually stayed at the Branch Temple that I was assigned to as an assistant for a time. I did Gongyo many times with Nittatsu Shonin, and that is the way he did Gongyo when he visited the Temple. He went through the Hoben and Juryo Chapters once, chanted Daimoku for a long time, and then prayed all five prayers at the end of the Daimoku. This is not strange or secret; many priests have done Gongyo with Nittatsu Shonin using this format. So, priests might follow this format sometimes, or might recite the extend Hoben and Juryo Chapters sometimes, but what they all bear in mind is that the Daimoku is the primary practice of their faith.

Just for your information htere is a special recitation of Gongyo that some priests -- expecially older priests -- sometimes do, that involves dropping some consonants and emphasizing some vowels. It takes less time to recite the Sutra this way -- some of hte older priests can recite the Hoben chapter in this style with one breath -- but it takes a lot of training, and the sound of it in no way resemebles the slurred, quick Gongyo I was referring to before.
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
You are also very very amusing my friend.
Yes. I'm trying to be.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Queequeg »

Richard, you may not realize, but I am trying to understand what you are saying.

I agree that Nichiren counseled that those who are just embarking on the path should not concern themselves with any practice other than cultivating faith. This is done, as you assert, in the simplest, complete sense by chanting the daimoku with a mind of faith. No other practice is necessary to attain enlightenment in this body - but the meaning of daimoku with faith evolves with as one's faith evolves. And its this that you seem to condemn.

This is wrong. You won't agree and you will call me names, accuse me of heresy, etc. That is nothing I can control. That's on you.

As one's faith and practice evolves, it ripens into a reading of daimoku with our mind and body in the world we live - not just in front of the Gohonzon chanting daimoku.

You're aversion to gongyo seem to stem from your experience in NSA, SGI? Shoshu. In arguing with me and others, you seem to have in mind that we're telling people to recite the sutra five times in the morning and three times in the evening. This is not the case. I don't think anyone here has said that recitation of sutras is required to attain enlightenment.

Let's take a look at the section of the Shishin Gohon Sho, The Four Depths of Faith and Five Stages of Practice, you focus on, the section about reciting daimoku exclusively. This is based on the Seventeenth Chapter of the Lotus Sutra, the portion included in the Chapter and Two Halves. Based on the sutra, and Zhiyi's (Tiantai's) commentary and Zhanran/Miao-lo' commentary on it, Nichiren teaches one first embarking on the path is not required to undertake all six paramitas - dana (generosity), sila (right behavior), ksanti (forbearance/patience), virya (diligence), dhyana (concentration), but only the paramita of prajna (wisdom). However, lacking in wisdom, we substitute adhimukti for prajna. Adhimukti is a condition of the mind in which the subject establishes resolve in a teaching. Its often translated as "faith", but has a different nuance. In any event, we hear the Buddha's teaching and through adhimukti accept what he teaches as true.

The teaching here is Myohorengekyo 妙法蓮華経. We express our resolve in its truth by adding Namu 南無, which is an expression of refuge/devotion. By chanting this, we are able to develop our resolve. We start with a faint, tentative resolve that ripens with repetition and reinforcement. And as you know, rounding out the Three Pillars, our faith and practice is enriched with study. These three serve to reinforce and enhance the others.

The passage of the Shishin Gohon Sho, as well as other Gosho explain that the Daimoku contains all the teachings and practices of the Buddha just as the two characters for Japan 日本 refers to all the provinces, all cities, towns, and villages, the mountains, the forests, and all the people of Japan. If someone wants to name all of those discrete dharmas, all the provinces, cities, towns, villages - let alone each being - there is a danger that they might lose their way and become confused, but there is nothing wrong if one is able to do so. In fact, with a little practice, it would not be a particular challenge to name all the provinces and reflect on unique features of each - thereby bringing to mind a more detailed and nuanced meaning to Japan 日本. If Japan is foreign to you, you could substitute your own country and think of the subdivisions.

Gongyo, as has been pointed out in this thread by participants, is a way to enhance our practice of daimoku. By reflecting on the three ways of understanding the ten factors, we develop our appreciation for the varied nature of reality. By reciting the 16th Chapter, we reflect on the beginningless and endless nature of Buddhahood.

These practices are not required, but if someone is inclined and capable, there is nothing that should hold them back.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by narhwal90 »

Current recitation in SGI is once thru hoben & juryo, with daimoku before and after, concluding with the prayers. Morning gongyo adds the prayer to the shoten zenjin just before recitation begins. The cadence of daimoku and gongyo is pretty fast unless its a new members meeting when the pace is much reduced to help make pronunciation clearer. If its a "chanting meeting" ie not a study/discussion/scheduling then the daimoku after recitation is extended compared to that prior to recitation.

These days its not uncommon to have remote attendees, coming in via audio/video on on a mobile device. In such cases the phone/tablet is propped on something (eg chair) in the front of the room, but not the altar, with display and camera facing the participants. When chanting, both participants on both ends face their respective gohonzon. Its a bit unusual when first seen, but it works fine and both sides can participate in the meeting.

In a larger meeting I quite appreciate enhanced consonants, it helps the rest of the attendees keep the pace. With many voices in play its frequently difficult to follow the leader's pace, particularly if they tend to have a muted delivery, in such cases daimoku cadence tends to gradually slow. In larger meetings where the leader is chanting over the PA, or has a helper do so, the pace is generally more consistent.
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Caoimhghín »

Queequeg wrote:勤行 gongyo

善戒経云。若無菩薩性者。雖復発心勤行精進雖復発心懃修精進。終不能得阿耨菩提。

From Chu Hokkekyo, Nichiren's annotated Lotus Sutra.

'Gotta do gongyo to attain bodhi.'
I'm taking a look at the language here right now, out of curiosity and in an attempt to understand it. Do you know if there is an English copy of this commentary online so I can get a better look at how the language is structured here?

I wish I was fluent enough to read texts like this. Zhiyi is even harder to read. I find the Lotus Sūtra isn't too difficult to unravel, as long as you can consult and cross-references many dictionaries and other well-established translations, the language is rather simple (and preserves vestiges of Indo-European sentence structure frequently), but prose text in Middle Chinese is out of this world to try to make sense of.

Would a site like NichirenLibrary (http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/) have this text uploaded?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by narhwal90 »

I've never heard of the Chu Hokkekyo being released in english via SGI. Though they do publish a translation of the Lotus Sutra it is not generally studied, pretty much its up to individual initiative.
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Queequeg wrote:Richard, you may not realize, but I am trying to understand what you are saying.

I agree that Nichiren counseled that those who are just embarking on the path should not concern themselves with any practice other than cultivating faith. This is done, as you assert, in the simplest, complete sense by chanting the daimoku with a mind of faith. No other practice is necessary to attain enlightenment in this body - but the meaning of daimoku with faith evolves with as one's faith evolves. And its this that you seem to condemn.

This is wrong. You won't agree and you will call me names, accuse me of heresy, etc. That is nothing I can control. That's on you.

As one's faith and practice evolves, it ripens into a reading of daimoku with our mind and body in the world we live - not just in front of the Gohonzon chanting daimoku.

You're aversion to gongyo seem to stem from your experience in NSA, SGI? Shoshu. In arguing with me and others, you seem to have in mind that we're telling people to recite the sutra five times in the morning and three times in the evening. This is not the case. I don't think anyone here has said that recitation of sutras is required to attain enlightenment.

Let's take a look at the section of the Shishin Gohon Sho, The Four Depths of Faith and Five Stages of Practice, you focus on, the section about reciting daimoku exclusively. This is based on the Seventeenth Chapter of the Lotus Sutra, the portion included in the Chapter and Two Halves. Based on the sutra, and Zhiyi's (Tiantai's) commentary and Zhanran/Miao-lo' commentary on it, Nichiren teaches one first embarking on the path is not required to undertake all six paramitas - dana (generosity), sila (right behavior), ksanti (forbearance/patience), virya (diligence), dhyana (concentration), but only the paramita of prajna (wisdom). However, lacking in wisdom, we substitute adhimukti for prajna. Adhimukti is a condition of the mind in which the subject establishes resolve in a teaching. Its often translated as "faith", but has a different nuance. In any event, we hear the Buddha's teaching and through adhimukti accept what he teaches as true.

The teaching here is Myohorengekyo 妙法蓮華経. We express our resolve in its truth by adding Namu 南無, which is an expression of refuge/devotion. By chanting this, we are able to develop our resolve. We start with a faint, tentative resolve that ripens with repetition and reinforcement. And as you know, rounding out the Three Pillars, our faith and practice is enriched with study. These three serve to reinforce and enhance the others.

The passage of the Shishin Gohon Sho, as well as other Gosho explain that the Daimoku contains all the teachings and practices of the Buddha just as the two characters for Japan 日本 refers to all the provinces, all cities, towns, and villages, the mountains, the forests, and all the people of Japan. If someone wants to name all of those discrete dharmas, all the provinces, cities, towns, villages - let alone each being - there is a danger that they might lose their way and become confused, but there is nothing wrong if one is able to do so. In fact, with a little practice, it would not be a particular challenge to name all the provinces and reflect on unique features of each - thereby bringing to mind a more detailed and nuanced meaning to Japan 日本. If Japan is foreign to you, you could substitute your own country and think of the subdivisions.

Gongyo, as has been pointed out in this thread by participants, is a way to enhance our practice of daimoku. By reflecting on the three ways of understanding the ten factors, we develop our appreciation for the varied nature of reality. By reciting the 16th Chapter, we reflect on the beginningless and endless nature of Buddhahood.

These practices are not required, but if someone is inclined and capable, there is nothing that should hold them back.
:good: Well presented and I think it is in accord with Nichiren's Teachings of Those who are knowledgeable.
A فوتاري أوف ذي غوهونزون أوف نام ميوهو رينج كيو
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Nichiren Teaches :reading:

"“In Profound Meaning, T’ien-t’ai established the five major principles of name, entity, quality, function, and teaching, and in their light explained the power and efficacy of the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo.

In the section on the third of the five major principles, that dealing with the quality of the Lotus Sutra, he writes, ‘When one pulls on the main cord of a net, there are no meshes that do not move, and when one raises a single corner of a robe, there are no threads in the robe that are not lifted up.’

The meaning of this passage is that, when one carries out the single practice of exercising faith in Myoho-renge-kyo, there are no blessings that fail to come to one, and no good karma that does not begin to work on one’s behalf.

It is like the case of a fishing net: though the net is composed of innumerable small meshes, when one pulls on the main cord of the net, there are no meshes that do not move.

Or it is like a garment: though the garment is composed of countless tiny threads, when one pulls on a corner of the garment, there are no threads that are not drawn along."

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1 ... 3#para-220

This off topic dismissal of The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo in the previous few posts is indicative of the truths presented here are affecting the minds and entertains the ears of many!

I am overjoyed and convinced of my being....

A Teacher of The Law

Sincerely Richard H Brown A Votary of The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Learn what you have never even considered. It has taken roots now. It's just a matter of time, you are 'The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!'
A فوتاري أوف ذي غوهونزون أوف نام ميوهو رينج كيو
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

Say on!

This is what I heard! :focus:

The search for Gongyo anywhere on the Internet now is inclusive of Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects...

What dose this mean?

It means folks who are seeking now have access to Nichiren's Teachings as never before presented, in the entire world, isn't that amazing?

No longer will people just accept what is easy to believe and blindly folllow persons. As We have demonstrated thoroughly here, there is a method to Nichiren's Teachings and a purpose of his Buddhism.

Those who choose to remain blind , and cover their ears are many! But from today onward all of you have to consider Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects and the teachings which have been revealed in this wonderful discussion of Faith in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism!

I thank you all for making history with me!

Hail Nichiren

Sincerely Richard H Brown A Votary of The Gohonzon of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
A فوتاري أوف ذي غوهونزون أوف نام ميوهو رينج كيو
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Re: Gongyo as Practiced by Nichiren Buddhism Sects.

Post by Caoimhghín »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:I would like to discuss my findings within the body of Nichiren's Teachings which are available and widely read in this 'The Latter Day of The Law', and the meaning of 'Faith' as taught by Nichiren. I believe that the recitation of Shayamuni's Lotus Sutra is 'Simply Chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo' exclusively without any other recitation or chant. Including, the recitation of any part or whole of the Lotus Sutra as taught by Shakyamuni Buddha. Gongyo is not mentioned by Nichiren but was introduced by later Priest of Nichiren Buddhist Sects.

Sincerely, JazzIs, A Votary of The Lotus Sutra
Point is: this is wrong. This has been demonstrated multiple times by multiple people. "JazzIs" will claim that he has "proven" without a doubt that his thesis is true, but he was systematically failed every single time to defend his beliefs when confronted with hard evidence to the contrary. The thread itself is final evidence of that.

Nichiren suggests exclusive chant of the title for some people. As evidenced numerous times. This does not, at all, affect or strengthen the OP's thesis, which is based on exclusive chanting of the sūtra title, with all other practice and inquiry into the Lotus Sūtra discouraged as a chanting practice.

Nichiren does mention gongyō, in this evidence put forth, which was dismissed and ignored by the OP:
Queequeg wrote:勤行 gongyo

善戒経云。若無菩薩性者。雖復発心勤行精進雖復発心懃修精進。終不能得阿耨菩提

From Chu Hokkekyo, Nichiren's annotated Lotus Sutra.
That is all essentially anyone needs to know about this entire thread.

I feel that this clarification is important for the education of new users who may be unfamiliar with the Buddhism espoused on this subforum. Does DharmaWheel have a protocol to enforce accuracy when misinformation is repeatedly spread?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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