Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:06 pm

Minobu wrote:just a note seeing Nagarjuna is one of the lineage masters.
He taught Sunyata /emptiness of all things/ nothing is inherent.
It's that which causes the big difference in the concept of Atman (inherant soul)in Hindu belief systems and the Buddhist mind.

Once you describe something as inherent it no longer becomes a Buddhist principle/ for everything is co arising and interdependent. hence nothing including Buddha Nature can be inherent. that does not mean Buddha Nature does not exist , just the way to VIEW IT.

carry on.

d


a bit of an add on...

think about this.
Seed of Buddhahood, Nichiren talked of the seed /or potential of Buddhahood.
Also the Buddha Nature is in all ten worlds.

also Nichiren Shonin talked of Enlightenment is something SHARED between Buddhas.

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go with the concept of sharing between Buddhas
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:08 pm

illarraza wrote:[

Mark


i am not being sarcastic or insulting towards you mark.

BUT...
You would do me a huge favour if you could say who is writing what ...and where if it is not your words... it is coming from.

I cannot distinguish what is your opinion or what is written from other sources ....
I am not an afficiando on gosho or Nichiren Shonin's words so I just don;t know who is talking...

and whether those sources are in question and should have a warning... or at least if we know it is some Ikedaism thing we can decide whether to pollute our minds or not with those words.
Dave
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

illarraza
Posts: 359
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby illarraza » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:48 pm

I believe Minobu, if you [or anyone] does a thorough investigation of what Nichiren wrote about seed[s], you will come to the same conclusion as I. Do you doubt my conclusions? If you do, you had better cite some clear passages of proof.

Mark

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:15 am

illarraza wrote:I believe Minobu, if you [or anyone] does a thorough investigation of what Nichiren wrote about seed[s], you will come to the same conclusion as I. Do you doubt my conclusions? If you do, you had better cite some clear passages of proof.

Mark


I would love to continue the discussion.
But I tried to convey to you that I don't know what are your words or what are Nichiren Shonin's words and where, ifthey are Nichiren Shonin's words, did they come from and are they an authentic piece of writing.

when i write something , and most people do, or quote something from a person other than myself I tell everyone.

It's a fair practice and makes things clear.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

Maki
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:16 am

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Maki » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:07 am

Minobu wrote:

Once you describe something as inherent it no longer becomes a Buddhist principle/ for everything is co arising and interdependent. hence nothing including Buddha Nature can be inherent. that does not mean Buddha Nature does not exist , just the way to VIEW IT.


Well, here I'm trying to understand and follow Nichiren's teachings. And is Nichiren who says that Original enlightenment is the inherent nature of all of us. Let me quote a few but important and beautiful words from other gosho:

The entity of Myoho-renge-kyo in all its splendor -just what it this entity? If we hope to answer this, we must say that it is the eight petaled white lotus that is the true nature of our own lives. Since this is so, then the essential nature of our lives is Myoho-renge-kyo. And once we have come to understand that Myoho-renge-kyo is not the name of a sutra but is the entity of our own lives, then we will see that our own lives are in fact the Lotus Sutra, and the otus Sutra is none other than the sacred word preached by Buddha in order to ake manifest the entities that ar our lives


This is a nice and hopeful paragraph of Nichiren, from the gosho "On the ten factors" (number 179 in SG english edition), where you can clearly read that our true nature is the Buddha entity.

If one conceive the "emptiness" as a mere abstract notion, never will understand why our own entity is such as Buddha entity. Emptiness, as mere abstract notion, seem to be opposite to "entity". But our masters, Nichiren as well as Nagarjuna, were serious persons... We need to do an effort for to understand them...

Be well

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:31 pm

Maki wrote: Minobu wrote:

Once you describe something as inherent it no longer becomes a Buddhist principle/ for everything is co arising and interdependent. hence nothing including Buddha Nature can be inherent. that does not mean Buddha Nature does not exist , just the way to VIEW IT.


Well, here I'm trying to understand and follow Nichiren's teachings. And is Nichiren who says that Original enlightenment is the inherent nature of all of us. Let me quote a few but important and beautiful words from other gosho:

The entity of Myoho-renge-kyo in all its splendor -just what it this entity? If we hope to answer this, we must say that it is the eight petaled white lotus that is the true nature of our own lives. Since this is so, then the essential nature of our lives is Myoho-renge-kyo. And once we have come to understand that Myoho-renge-kyo is not the name of a sutra but is the entity of our own lives, then we will see that our own lives are in fact the Lotus Sutra, and the otus Sutra is none other than the sacred word preached by Buddha in order to ake manifest the entities that ar our lives


This is a nice and hopeful paragraph of Nichiren, from the gosho "On the ten factors" (number 179 in SG english edition), where you can clearly read that our true nature is the Buddha entity.


I knew this was going to open a can of worms . As it should.

Here lies my conclusion as to why.
Translation translation translation.

People somewhere have translated our Master's words to fit their need to for them to feel they know what they are reading.

I wish i could read His writing and understand it.
Using the word inherent means something exists in and of on it's own . Nothing does. Everything is co existing and co arising.
So once you tell someone that Buddha nature is inherent...they will be looking for something in a view that is non Buddhist.

I think if we keep this in mind and have a real good translator go back and interpret the words written we might come up with something that is not of the translator's making.

Maki wrote: If one conceive the "emptiness" as a mere abstract notion, never will understand why our own entity is such as Buddha entity. Emptiness, as mere abstract notion, seem to be opposite to "entity". But our masters, Nichiren as well as Nagarjuna, were serious persons... We need to do an effort for to understand them...

Be wel l


Emptiness is not an abstract notion. Sunyata once learned is a beautiful philosophy as well. It shows the nature of all things and their interconnectedness and the fact nothing is inherent or can be.
If anything is inherent than all things are inherent and the whole thing would be frozen in one moment for change would not exist for one thing.

to put os another way in a vedic way before Master Bodhisatva Nagarjuna, is why Shiva is death and Brahma is life and Vishnu holds all their molecules together.

emptiness is the way things are Maki, not an abstract notion.

you talk of right view, i think the Gakki used to teach something like ku ke chu or something or other they would just sort of glom over. Nichiren sho shu priests would elaborate a bit.. But you need one who has become enlightened to the concept to actually teach you.
I have a vague idea of it and have tried to make it my own for the sake of everyone and all things which we are all part and parcel to.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:30 pm

There is a problem with "inherent"... Beyond the problems of translation, but ultimately at the level of conventions - the problem with words like "inherent" is ultimately the problem inherent in language.

Inherent -
1. Existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
‘any form of mountaineering has its inherent dangers’
1.1 Law Vested in (someone) as a right or privilege.
1.2 Linguistics (of an adjective) having the same meaning in both attributive and predicative uses.

My sense of what is meant by "inherent Buddhanature"

Its descriptive of the true aspect -

Without going through the detail, the regressive analysis of mind shows us increasingly subtle levels of self, until we reach the level of fundamental ignorance, that first subtle misunderstanding that attributes a subject-object structure to the sublime, non-dual reality. And what is it that is obscured? The Sutras tell us its something like pure awareness (though words ultimately fail and this insight is only understood and shared between Buddhas).

That's what is "inherent" in beings...

Sunyata (emptiness) is the insight yielded by Nagarjuna's Madhyamika analysis, an analysis also includes its own neutralization through the caveat that the real "sunyata" is beyond the context of the analysis. "Inherent" is an expedient.

I think if you keep that in mind, then there is no problem with resorting to conventions. "If you obtain this meaning, then you comprehend both the impossibility of verbal expression and the necessity of verbal expression."
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

Maki
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:16 am

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Maki » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:37 pm

Here lies my conclusion as to why.
Translation translation translation


Well, I shouldn't give any explanation because you really don't want to know anything about Nichiren buddhism. But for other people here who can be confused by your objection:

The phrase translated in english by SG as "our entity" in the japanese Nichiren's gosho is: 法華経は我が身の体 (Hokke kyo is our body).

Yes, yes, yes!! the english word "entity" translates the japanese word "body" (体, karada). YES, YES... CHECK IT with someone more if you want.

The word "karada" (体) in japanese is body and also sustance. I guess the SG's translators have made this change because "body" in english has a very material meaning. But in the gosho context it refers to the substancial identity, what the being really is.

As you see, in the Nichiren speech the word body is farest to your "empty" than the english traslation.

I'm tired from you, Minobu. Finally I realized that you are not really interested about Nichiren teachings, you just want to call attention and loose talk.

So, because you make noise in all the forum threads, I leave this place... I don't need this game.

Goodbye

narhwal90
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby narhwal90 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:12 pm

Queequeg wrote:I think if you keep that in mind, then there is no problem with resorting to conventions. "If you obtain this meaning, then you comprehend both the impossibility of verbal expression and the necessity of verbal expression."



And thus, you don't know it until you do it, no matter how much talk takes place.. Recently I participated in a machinery repair seminar, teaching how to scrape cast iron surfaces very flat. One of the finishing techniques is "flaking" where the smooth surface is scratched in a particular way to help relieve the sliding surfaces so they don't end up sticking together and also provides reservoirs for oil, yet not materially affect the overall flatness. The flaking procedure involves holding a particularly sharpened scraper nearly vertically, with mild pressure on the workpiece, then striking the base of the scaper with an oblique blow using a soft hammer, allowing the scraper to twist and scratch- but only just enough to complete one of the flakes. Expert use is rapid and produces a consistent pattern of scratches at a controlled density over an arbitrarily area. It sounds simple enough but takes a while to get the hang of it while under instruction by the teacher. The preceeding summary is the same before and after learning the technique, it is insufficient by itself without the help of the teacher- at least without a very long period of experimentation and testing- but without it, the teacher has to work much harder. Similarly, without the conventions and terminology, discussion of the technique loses meaning.

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:13 pm

Maki wrote:
Here lies my conclusion as to why.
Translation translation translation


Well, I shouldn't give any explanation because you really don't want to know anything about Nichiren buddhism. But for other people here who can be confused by your objection:

The phrase translated in english by SG as "our entity" in the japanese Nichiren's gosho is: 法華経は我が身の体 (Hokke kyo is our body).

Yes, yes, yes!! the english word "entity" translates the japanese word "body" (体, karada). YES, YES... CHECK IT with someone more if you want.

The word "karada" (体) in japanese is body and also sustance. I guess the SG's translators have made this change because "body" in english has a very material meaning. But in the gosho context it refers to the substancial identity, what the being really is.

As you see, in the Nichiren speech the word body is farest to your "empty" than the english traslation.

I'm tired from you, Minobu. Finally I realized that you are not really interested about Nichiren teachings, you just want to call attention and loose talk.

So, because you make noise in all the forum threads, I leave this place... I don't need this game.

Goodbye

Wow Maki....whooooooah Nelly!... you decide what i am due to something inside in your head not mine.

you don't understand what i mean by the word empty or emptiness as a Buddhist term so you decide what it does and then go and do this.

i'm not trying to confuse anyone .

Just because something is empty and appears due to co arising and interdependence does not mean it does not exist.

case in point ,
The sky looks blue Maki but scientists say it isn't really blue.

The nature of everything including entity is empty of inherent existence , but that does not mean it does not exist.

you are jumping to conclusions , not made by me.

and please don't decide what I am due to your not understanding what i try to get across...

it's an opinion Maki..something I still am working on.

David

p.s.
as for your leaving that would be my loss
why...

i just finished a chanting session and during it, i had a thought about this. something you wrote and inspired me.
i had an epiphany as such which I won't go into detail...but it really shook me..

Maki wrote:
The entity of Myoho-renge-kyo in all its splendor -just what it this entity? If we hope to answer this, we must say that it is the eight petaled white lotus that is the true nature of our own lives. Since this is so, then the essential nature of our lives is Myoho-renge-kyo. And once we have come to understand that Myoho-renge-kyo is not the name of a sutra but is the entity of our own lives, then we will see that our own lives are in fact the Lotus Sutra, and the otus Sutra is none other than the sacred word preached by Buddha in order to ake manifest the entities that ar our lives


This is a nice and hopeful paragraph of Nichiren, from the gosho "On the ten factors" (number 179 in SG english edition), where you can clearly read that our true nature is the Buddha entity.


Be well

for real Maki !!!!
for the first time I tasted Nam Myoho Renge Kyo as an entity and now i have something to explore.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:18 pm

Queequeg wrote:There is a problem with "inherent"... Beyond the problems of translation, but ultimately at the level of conventions - the problem with words like "inherent" is ultimately the problem inherent in language.

Inherent -
1. Existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
‘any form of mountaineering has its inherent dangers’
1.1 Law Vested in (someone) as a right or privilege.
1.2 Linguistics (of an adjective) having the same meaning in both attributive and predicative uses.

My sense of what is meant by "inherent Buddhanature"

Its descriptive of the true aspect -

Without going through the detail, the regressive analysis of mind shows us increasingly subtle levels of self, until we reach the level of fundamental ignorance, that first subtle misunderstanding that attributes a subject-object structure to the sublime, non-dual reality. And what is it that is obscured? The Sutras tell us its something like pure awareness (though words ultimately fail and this insight is only understood and shared between Buddhas).

That's what is "inherent" in beings...

Sunyata (emptiness) is the insight yielded by Nagarjuna's Madhyamika analysis, an analysis also includes its own neutralization through the caveat that the real "sunyata" is beyond the context of the analysis. "Inherent" is an expedient.

I think if you keep that in mind, then there is no problem with resorting to conventions. "If you obtain this meaning, then you comprehend both the impossibility of verbal expression and the necessity of verbal expression."


i knew you would come up with something but not this.

thats perfect and I not only can live with it but it makes sense.

and yet using the word inherent when in a Buddhist context is a big no no for reasons you just pointed out.

Nothing is inherent, which as I just tried to explain to Maki does not mean that Myoho Renge is not an entity or a seed to Buddahood present in all sentient and insentient beings...the latter being rocks and trees and nose hair.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:23 pm

narhwal90 wrote:
Queequeg wrote:I think if you keep that in mind, then there is no problem with resorting to conventions. "If you obtain this meaning, then you comprehend both the impossibility of verbal expression and the necessity of verbal expression."



And thus, you don't know it until you do it, no matter how much talk takes place.. Recently I participated in a machinery repair seminar, teaching how to scrape cast iron surfaces very flat. One of the finishing techniques is "flaking" where the smooth surface is scratched in a particular way to help relieve the sliding surfaces so they don't end up sticking together and also provides reservoirs for oil, yet not materially affect the overall flatness. The flaking procedure involves holding a particularly sharpened scraper nearly vertically, with mild pressure on the workpiece, then striking the base of the scaper with an oblique blow using a soft hammer, allowing the scraper to twist and scratch- but only just enough to complete one of the flakes. Expert use is rapid and produces a consistent pattern of scratches at a controlled density over an arbitrarily area. It sounds simple enough but takes a while to get the hang of it while under instruction by the teacher. The preceeding summary is the same before and after learning the technique, it is insufficient by itself without the help of the teacher- at least without a very long period of experimentation and testing- but without it, the teacher has to work much harder. Similarly, without the conventions and terminology, discussion of the technique loses meaning.

nicely put .
I'm sure Nichiren Shonin understood Sunyata , the concept of Emptiness of existence and nonexistence in all things.

A convention is obvious to most. But it is a grave error to use a word for convenience sake when it entails having an individual confused and then accepting a mediocrity there by transforming his paradigm on every level.



edited at convention to a convention
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:56 pm

Maki wrote:The phrase translated in english by SG as "our entity" in the japanese Nichiren's gosho is: 法華経は我が身の体 (Hokke kyo is our body).


身の体 is curious. Literally it means "Body of body."

However, they have different connotations - 身 this has the connotation of the fleshly body.

体 has the connotation of the body's form.

So, it seems to mean, the flesh of the body.

The Lotus Sutra is the flesh of my (our) body.

This character invokes the sense of the Buddha's body -

Compare, the last line of the Juryo chapter -

sokujojubusshin. "Attain the body of the Buddha"

busshin 佛身 is "Body of the Buddha"

Its the same character for body (fleshly) above.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:01 pm

illarraza wrote:I believe Minobu, if you [or anyone] does a thorough investigation of what Nichiren wrote about seed[s], you will come to the same conclusion as I. Do you doubt my conclusions? If you do, you had better cite some clear passages of proof.

Mark


Mark, no need to get antagonistic here. He was just asking you to provide citations for that lengthy quote you posted. He's not doubting you.

I'll second that request.

Just provide a citation and we all move on.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:31 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Maki wrote:The phrase translated in english by SG as "our entity" in the japanese Nichiren's gosho is: 法華経は我が身の体 (Hokke kyo is our body).


身の体 is curious. Literally it means "Body of body."

However, they have different connotations - 身 this has the connotation of the fleshly body.

体 has the connotation of the body's form.

So, it seems to mean, the flesh of the body.

The Lotus Sutra is the flesh of my (our) body.

This character invokes the sense of the Buddha's body -

Compare, the last line of the Juryo chapter -

sokujojubusshin. "Attain the body of the Buddha"

busshin 佛身 is "Body of the Buddha"

Its the same character for body (fleshly) above.


so the entity within is the Buddha we all are?
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:59 pm

Minobu wrote:so the entity within is the Buddha we all are?



I don't know about that. Not sure I'd put it that way.

身 is the character used for kaya, as in trikaya.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Minobu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:02 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Minobu wrote:so the entity within is the Buddha we all are?



I don't know about that. Not sure I'd put it that way.

身 is the character used for kaya, as in trikaya.

So He called "It" an entity , there is one but as to "What"..one of those inconceivables you were talking about a few weeks back...then?
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 697
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Coëmgenu » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:29 pm

Queequeg wrote:There is a problem with "inherent"... Beyond the problems of translation, but ultimately at the level of conventions - the problem with words like "inherent" is ultimately the problem inherent in language
Is the Chinese character that is being rendered as the word "inherent" equivalent to svabhāva, as in, svabhāvadhātu?

Edit: Apparently one way of translating inherency, svabhāva, in Chinese, is 自性. Is that what the text has in it?
"My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere."
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra XVI)

All these dharmāḥ are the status of dharma, the standing of dharma, the suchness of dharma; the dharma neither departs from things-as-they-are, nor differs from things-as-they-are; it is the truth, reality, without distortion.(SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶(Prajñāpāramitāhṛdayasya Mantra)

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:56 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Queequeg wrote:There is a problem with "inherent"... Beyond the problems of translation, but ultimately at the level of conventions - the problem with words like "inherent" is ultimately the problem inherent in language
Is the Chinese character that is being rendered as the word "inherent" equivalent to svabhāva, as in, svabhāvadhātu?

Edit: Apparently one way of translating inherency, svabhāva, in Chinese, is 自性. Is that what the text has in it?


might be. but that's not the point. Minobu was picking up on the use of the word and reading more into it than intended.

We're talking about Buddhanature and how that is inherent. If you're familiar with the assertion of universal Buddhanature, then you understand what is meant by "inherent" in this context.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 2975
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Study Group: Kanjin no Honzon sho

Postby Queequeg » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:11 pm

Minobu wrote:
Queequeg wrote:
Minobu wrote:so the entity within is the Buddha we all are?



I don't know about that. Not sure I'd put it that way.

身 is the character used for kaya, as in trikaya.

So He called "It" an entity , there is one but as to "What"..one of those inconceivables you were talking about a few weeks back...then?


According to the Tiantai school, there are two unique teachings in the Lotus Sutra -

1. Iccantikas and women can attain enlightenment.
2. The Buddha's enlightenment in the remote past.

The first point is an assertion of universal Buddhanature. Tiantai remarks, and I'm paraphrasing, if beings do not possess the potential to be a Buddha, then there is no point in the Buddha saying in the Lotus Sutra he appears to open the path to Buddhahood for all beings. Hence, we can say, Buddhanature is inherent.

Its all a matter of perspective.

Don't read anything more into the statement, "Buddhanature is inherent". Buddhanature is not a thing. Its a way to talk about what beings really are - putative Buddhas. The difference between a Buddha and an ordinary beings is that a Buddha is not deluded about their real nature, while ordinary beings are mistaken.*

*this is an expedient device. see upaya.**

**so is this.***

***ad infinitum.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller


Return to “Nichiren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: markatex and 6 guests