Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Queequeg » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:23 am

Coëmgenu wrote:]Seriously? I was 90% sure you could get some understanding of Chinese through the Japanese language, which I thought you were translating from a text a while back in your study group. I don't actually know why I thought you spoke Japanese though, it just occurred to me that I have no actual reason as to why I always had assumed you did.

I speak Japanese, can almost read functionally, or could when I lived there. But that does not amount to reading Chinese. Completely different grammatical structure, if I could even read all the characters. I can get the gist of Chinese written language sometimes.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Coëmgenu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:21 am

Queequeg wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: The Dharmakāya is only Saṃsāra when it is misunderstood. The Buddha is only in hell when Buddhahood (and Hell?) is misunderstood.
Buddha is never in hell. :) Even when responding to the hell dweller, he is always dwelling in tranquility. Buddha never misunderstands reality - he sees the triple world as it truly is.
I actually just realized what the misunderstanding here was. I was speaking of beings with Buddha-nature and euphemistically calling them Buddhas, albeit unrealized ones, hence why I said Buddhas could be in Hell.
"My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere."
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra XVI)

All these dharmāḥ are the status of dharma, the standing of dharma, the suchness of dharma; the dharma neither departs from things-as-they-are, nor differs from things-as-they-are; it is the truth, reality, without distortion.(SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶(Prajñāpāramitāhṛdayasya Mantra)

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Coëmgenu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:26 am

Queequeg wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: The Dharmakāya is only Saṃsāra when it is misunderstood. The Buddha is only in hell when Buddhahood (and Hell?) is misunderstood.
Buddha is never in hell. :) Even when responding to the hell dweller, he is always dwelling in tranquility. Buddha never misunderstands reality - he sees the triple world as it truly is.
On reflection, I think the Buddha is indeed in Hell, but that does not mean he is suffering on account of it, consider the Lifespan of the Tathágata:
These living beings with their various offenses,
through causes arising from their evil actions,
spend asamkhya kalpas
without hearing the name of the three treasures.
But those who practice meritorious ways,
who are gentle, peaceful, honest, and upright,
all of them will see me
here in person, preaching the Law.
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra 16)


The stipulation here is "living beings", of which beings in Hell are a subcategory. That whole passage, indeed much of chapter 16 as a whole, is about the interpenetration of the Buddha element with the 9 deluded elements, and the presence of the Buddha's eternal/primordial sermon atop the Holy Eagle Peak in all 10 dhátu, which is misunderstood in 9 realms as the fires of delusion established in ancient layers of Buddhavacana (I'm aluding here to the Fire Sermon, which the interpenetrationality espoused in Chapter 16 is consonant with):
My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere.
(Ibid.)


So doesn't it follow from there that from any realm (since the only stipulation is "living beings"), through the practices yielded from the Buddhavacana, one can come to a cessation of samsaric misunderstanding of dharmakaya and witness the Buddha element: the primordial preaching of the Buddha in the Pure Land? The Buddha is in Hell precisely because the Buddha (Pure Land?) element interpenetrates the Hell element along with the other 9 elements.

Or does the classifier "living beings" only apply to human births?
"My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere."
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra XVI)

All these dharmāḥ are the status of dharma, the standing of dharma, the suchness of dharma; the dharma neither departs from things-as-they-are, nor differs from things-as-they-are; it is the truth, reality, without distortion.(SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶(Prajñāpāramitāhṛdayasya Mantra)

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby DharmaChakra » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:04 am

Namaste,

Lord Nagarjuna. you either believe or don't believe i guess.
it all comes back to haunt me now and then..

authenticity...where did the Sutra originate...who created it or is it a Dharmakaya thing


Firstly what is naga, naga is not a race of people, its an abode of knowledge~vidya, usually its mystic and always above ordinary understanding, the nagas were known as mystics, who reside in subterranean worlds as one description. Nagarjuna same as the Buddha has two dimensions, one in the human form and other as an abode of consciousness, Buddha is not just confined to Siddhartha and the knowledge that Nagarjuna had is not uniquely his, the sage Nagarjuna discovered that abode of knowledge .

Buddha Dharma is a discovery, an awakened discovery of things that are already are there. Naga is if we put in modern language a junction within the subtle body, when a nadi opens then certain forms of knowledge is revealed, this knowledge is universal and applies to all and all can have access to it via sadhana or skillful means., many lokas many abodes, all with varying degrees of illuminating knowledge, So when the Buddha said that he keeps teachings with Naga's then he is meaning that they are stored in nagalands or deeper abodes or lokas, which are conscious and luminous and reside in all of us on a subtle level and are universal applicable and accessible to everyone, the sutras came from knowledge and illumination of that naga being experienced.

Is the Buddha in hell, yes he is in all states of consciousness but it may be covered by ordinary consciousness, Buddha is not created or a product of thought/meditation. It is said if one is bit by a naga then its a blessing.

With Metta

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Queequeg » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:Well the narrative I have encountered really couches the relations, similar or different, between Zhiyi, Zhanran, and Zhili on terms of the historical realities of sectarian Buddhisms (and, in Zhiyi's case, particularly monasteries moreso than doctrinal movements) competing for aristocratic and imperial patronage in China, particularly after the founder was long dead. Particularly in the different ideological rivals that different writers had to engage in polemic against, lest they lose patronage, and the way that this transformed and reinvented Tiantai over the years.


I recall a discussion years ago where an acquaintance characterized Zhiyi as a captive bird, his urban monastery was a golden cage where his aristocratic patrons could enjoy his singing. Indeed, he'd come down from the mountain from time to time and teach, but it seems he was most content up on the mountain with his students, engaging in deep practice. If you read his ritual manuals, you realize what kind of seclusion is needed for those practices. Years ago, before Japan was overrun with package tourists, you could go to places like Mt. Hiei and be one of the only visitors on the mountain. I remember walking a long path alone under the centuries old cypresses in a spring morning mist. I suspect that he preferred places like that - I imagine Mt. Tiantai is a similar place. At some point in life, I'd like to be able to spend time in a place like that, just get deep into practice.

The point I'm making is, his reasons for coming down from the mountain are the same as most of us - someone's gotta pay the darn bills.

Returning to your point about the "adaptations" - By Nichiren's time, I think there was a self conscious idea in Tendai circles that teachers appear from time to time to renew the teaching of the Lotus and reassert it in relation to new circumstances - Zhiyi established the teachings of the Lotus and asserted them in relation to the teachings of his day. Later, Zhanran renewed the teaching, adapting the critiques to the teachings current at his time. Saicho (Dengyo Daishi) then did so again in Japan (Zhili is out of the Japanese lineage, and in fact, I understand there was correspondence between Hiei and Zhili, and they apparently did not think very much of Zhili; they apparently sent him some questions and one of the Tendai monks predicted what his answers could be, and wrote critiques of each; Zhili's answers matched the worst answers predicted), and Nichiren was doing so again in the Kamakura period in response to the propagation of Mappo thought and Honen's interpretation of Pure Land, Shingon, what he perceived as corrupt Tendai, and the emerging Zen movement. Nichiren's view of himself goes beyond that, but I believe he very much saw himself in this Tiantai-Tendai tradition.

Further, adaptation is built into the Tiantai teachings - just look at that passage of Zhiyi I quoted above - in that passage its saying, any dharma insisted upon is an unsupportable bias, though also not categorically false, and rather, categorically true. Tiantai is built to absorb and assimilate, and adapt. My own biased view on this is, it works that way because it IS the Perfect Teaching.

My sense is that Ziporyn very much appreciates this about Tiantai. I think his most robust exploration of this is his Being and Ambiguity. When he talks about Zhanran as a reinventor, I sense its an observation about how Zhanran readapted Tiantai in his circumstances. He makes similar observations about Nichiren, though I'd disagree with him to a certain extent in exactly how Nichiren adapted.

Certainly I think patronage played a role for these men, but I doubt that it was the guiding motivation. I don't know much about Zhanran, but certainly, Saicho encountered a great deal of difficulty in trying to establish Hiei. I would think that had Saicho been cut off, he would have persevered on the mountain. Nichiren certainly was never motivated by patronage, rejecting it unless it was an action following the intention to revere the Lotus Sutra. He in fact turned down a generous offer of official patronage in favor of moving to a remote mountain hermitage.

In any event, I'm interested to see where you are going in the separate thread.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Coëmgenu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:55 pm

Queequeg wrote:My sense is that Ziporyn very much appreciates this about Tiantai. I think his most robust exploration of this is his Being and Ambiguity. When he talks about Zhanran as a reinventor, I sense its an observation about how Zhanran readapted Tiantai in his circumstances. He makes similar observations about Nichiren, though I'd disagree with him to a certain extent in exactly how Nichiren adapted.
Yes, that is a misunderstanding I wasn't clear enough about. Ziporyn doesn't portray fundamental transformations of Tiantai that compromise the relations between the modern and historical forms of the tradition. Rather he illustrates how over time Tiantai has needed to (at some times) radically transform the way it explains itself to remain relevant with the changing historical conditions of society. Zhanran and Zhili are almost characterized like Tiantai advertisers in this writing more so than reconstructionists or anything, because they do not change existing teachings handed down from Zhiyi, they just contextualize the teachings for new challenges, some new things get added with each interpreter, but not things that contradict anything previously established in the sort-of "core teachings" if you will. And Zhanran and Zhili do disagree on some things, typically related to how to properly interpret Zhiyi. There are some teachings of Zhiyi that Zhili thought were provisional and Zhanran thought weren't, and vice-versa, but these inconsistencies have a lot to do with trying to find methods of adapting Zhiyi's older discourse to contemporary narratives of popular metaphysics and less to do with actual practice and how the nature of the Buddha is viewed, how samsara is viewed, etc. Essential things like that only change in historical flavouring.

I'm a bit busy for work so my larger responce might be a bit long forthcoming.
"My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere."
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra XVI)

All these dharmāḥ are the status of dharma, the standing of dharma, the suchness of dharma; the dharma neither departs from things-as-they-are, nor differs from things-as-they-are; it is the truth, reality, without distortion.(SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶(Prajñāpāramitāhṛdayasya Mantra)

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:45 pm

DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

Lord Nagarjuna. you either believe or don't believe i guess.
it all comes back to haunt me now and then..

authenticity...where did the Sutra originate...who created it or is it a Dharmakaya thing


Firstly what is naga, naga is not a race of people, its an abode of knowledge~vidya, usually its mystic and always above ordinary understanding, the nagas were known as mystics, who reside in subterranean worlds as one description. Nagarjuna same as the Buddha has two dimensions, one in the human form and other as an abode of consciousness, Buddha is not just confined to Siddhartha and the knowledge that Nagarjuna had is not uniquely his, the sage Nagarjuna discovered that abode of knowledge .

Buddha Dharma is a discovery, an awakened discovery of things that are already are there. Naga is if we put in modern language a junction within the subtle body, when a nadi opens then certain forms of knowledge is revealed, this knowledge is universal and applies to all and all can have access to it via sadhana or skillful means., many lokas many abodes, all with varying degrees of illuminating knowledge, So when the Buddha said that he keeps teachings with Naga's then he is meaning that they are stored in nagalands or deeper abodes or lokas, which are conscious and luminous and reside in all of us on a subtle level and are universal applicable and accessible to everyone, the sutras came from knowledge and illumination of that naga being experienced.

Is the Buddha in hell, yes he is in all states of consciousness but it may be covered by ordinary consciousness, Buddha is not created or a product of thought/meditation. It is said if one is bit by a naga then its a blessing.

With Metta

Wow thats really nice stuff to read.
I've been labeled a fundamentalist for i take Dharma at face value and yet I also take it as you just explained.
I know thats sort of bi polar sounding.

Take for instance the belief in Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's lifespan .Is this myth or real. I think it is actually historic. Someone actually had to kill Him for He could not die.
The Rainbow Body at death, myth or real? Something happened in France not to long ago.......

I have been told Kundalini is basically a Naga . And yes when awakened in the human body realization takes place.
in any case a few random thoughts from me...




thank you very much for reminding us of the Truth. The Buddha is kind to me.

I needed That at this juncture,
david
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Let us die to make things cheap
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:05 pm

Sheer new age fantasy. It is amazing that anyone falls for this inane claptrap.


DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

Firstly what is naga, naga is not a race of people, its an abode of knowledge~vidya, usually its mystic and always above ordinary understanding, the nagas were known as mystics, who reside in subterranean worlds as one description. Nagarjuna same as the Buddha has two dimensions, one in the human form and other as an abode of consciousness, Buddha is not just confined to Siddhartha and the knowledge that Nagarjuna had is not uniquely his, the sage Nagarjuna discovered that abode of knowledge .

Buddha Dharma is a discovery, an awakened discovery of things that are already are there. Naga is if we put in modern language a junction within the subtle body, when a nadi opens then certain forms of knowledge is revealed, this knowledge is universal and applies to all and all can have access to it via sadhana or skillful means., many lokas many abodes, all with varying degrees of illuminating knowledge, So when the Buddha said that he keeps teachings with Naga's then he is meaning that they are stored in nagalands or deeper abodes or lokas, which are conscious and luminous and reside in all of us on a subtle level and are universal applicable and accessible to everyone, the sutras came from knowledge and illumination of that naga being experienced.

Is the Buddha in hell, yes he is in all states of consciousness but it may be covered by ordinary consciousness, Buddha is not created or a product of thought/meditation. It is said if one is bit by a naga then its a blessing.

With Metta
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:16 am

Malcolm wrote:Sheer new age fantasy. It is amazing that anyone falls for this inane claptrap.


DharmaChakra wrote:Namaste,

Firstly what is naga, naga is not a race of people, its an abode of knowledge~vidya, usually its mystic and always above ordinary understanding, the nagas were known as mystics, who reside in subterranean worlds as one description. Nagarjuna same as the Buddha has two dimensions, one in the human form and other as an abode of consciousness, Buddha is not just confined to Siddhartha and the knowledge that Nagarjuna had is not uniquely his, the sage Nagarjuna discovered that abode of knowledge .

Buddha Dharma is a discovery, an awakened discovery of things that are already are there. Naga is if we put in modern language a junction within the subtle body, when a nadi opens then certain forms of knowledge is revealed, this knowledge is universal and applies to all and all can have access to it via sadhana or skillful means., many lokas many abodes, all with varying degrees of illuminating knowledge, So when the Buddha said that he keeps teachings with Naga's then he is meaning that they are stored in nagalands or deeper abodes or lokas, which are conscious and luminous and reside in all of us on a subtle level and are universal applicable and accessible to everyone, the sutras came from knowledge and illumination of that naga being experienced.

Is the Buddha in hell, yes he is in all states of consciousness but it may be covered by ordinary consciousness, Buddha is not created or a product of thought/meditation. It is said if one is bit by a naga then its a blessing.

With Metta


actually the whole bottom of the ocean and serpent king of the nagas sounds like kundallini and this guy did it nicely and poetically.

I heard similar long before new age was even a word.

when we dissolve drops with kundallini energy we do open up all sorts.

you know the whole Kundali HANA HANA Hum PHAT thing.

and it was nice poetry..very inspiring..
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:56 pm

Minobu wrote:
you know the whole Kundali HANA HANA Hum PHAT thing.



This a mantra for blessing. It has nothing to do with Kundalini. Amritakundali means "gather the amrita."

If you are bit by a nāga, mostly you die. Nāgas are responsible for most of the cancer in the world, and many skin disease, etc. Nāgās are very irritable, and if you given them offerings on the wrong day, they will punish you. They are extremely dangerous beings, not poetic myths.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:58 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
you know the whole Kundali HANA HANA Hum PHAT thing.



This a mantra for blessing. It has nothing to do with Kundalini. Amritakundali means "gather the amrita."

If you are bit by a nāga, mostly you die. Nāgas are responsible for most of the cancer in the world, and many skin disease, etc. Nāgās are very irritable, and if you given them offerings on the wrong day, they will punish you. They are extremely dangerous beings, not poetic myths.

Amitra = Kundalinni


All the Renaissances our world experiences from time to time is due to the release of Amitra in the human body via Kundalini.
It inspires growth through the arts, which have always defined our humanity.


The 50's and 60's was one such Renaissance.

I'm surprised at you, missing the point of the blessing in question. Really surprised you would not know what it actually means.

where do you think Amitra comes from? Even a ShoShu priest knew what it was.
i thought you did the 3 year 3 month 3 day retreat with the six yogas of Naropa at one time.


Maybe we just had different teachers. The beautiful piece we see here poetic beauty is just that and it's truth not clap trap.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
If you are bit by a nāga, mostly you die. Nāgas are responsible for most of the cancer in the world, and many skin disease, etc. Nāgās are very irritable, and if you given them offerings on the wrong day, they will punish you. They are extremely dangerous beings, not poetic myths.


so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?

Have you ever had a client where you cured them of Naga Bite? What was the cost, if that is not too personal?
Ya never know eh !!!
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:16 pm

Minobu wrote:you know the whole Kundali HANA HANA Hum PHAT thing.
OM BENZA AMRITA KUNDALI...

Amritakundali is a deity, a bodhisattva, whose mantra is used for purification purposes.

Image

Trying to mix and match without realisation and/or proper guidance will lead to all sorts of erroneous conclusions.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:you know the whole Kundali HANA HANA Hum PHAT thing.
OM BENZA AMRITA KUNDALI...

Amritakundali is a deity, a bodhisattva, whose mantra is used for purification purposes.

Image

Trying to mix and match without realisation and/or proper guidance will lead to all sorts of erroneous conclusions.


nice art work.
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And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:03 pm

One of the main concerns of Nichiren Shonin was the corruption of Buddhism.

It is the reason for my return to His Dharma.
Once you see anything in Buddhist terms anything ,outside yourself , that is your 5 foot body as He called us, you will only suffer through your practice.
Your practice will become one long austerity.

Alchemical art is interesting in the sense that it is always about what is within. Sorry if that sounds like I'm mixing, i'm trying to show you that this art work and such is about what is within. Even this Bodhisattva Amritakundali is about you, and can only be found in you.

think about it.
Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:05 pm

I did not mean to go off topic in this thread.
By off topic i mean talking about stuff that usually isn't clearly in Nichiren Shonin's Dharma.
But I truly believe from what i know and have been introduced since embarking on the path with Gohonzon as my partner in it, it is possible some of us get instruction in various arts.

be careful in interpreting and incorporating what i just wrote.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:10 pm

Minobu wrote:Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.


Common misunderstanding. Kundalini is one thing. Caṇḍalī (gtum mo) is another.
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:13 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.


Common misunderstanding. Kundalini is one thing. Caṇḍalī (gtum mo) is another.


ok , can you explain.

my take:
(delete's take on subject)
actually this might sound like the biggest dodge ever...but i can't give it for reasons of a promise to secrecy made on a personal level.

I will say Tummo energy is involved . In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even. But i'm not about that and more of a street type practitioner.

Now then ,with all respect Malcolm if you wish to elaborate go for it, if not i get why.





but i do wish for massive clarification on your view to maybe address this part of a previous post,to follow up on topic being discussed;
so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?


Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
If you are bit by a nāga, mostly you die. Nāgas are responsible for most of the cancer in the world, and many skin disease, etc. Nāgās are very irritable, and if you given them offerings on the wrong day, they will punish you. They are extremely dangerous beings, not poetic myths.


so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?

Have you ever had a client where you cured them of Naga Bite? What was the cost, if that is not too personal?
Ya never know eh !!!
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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:33 pm

Malcolm you called something I hold sacred claptrap.
here
This is why I implore you to clarify.
I assert that you actually don't know what the guy's post in question is about and that you just don't want to answer in order for it to go away.




but i do wish for massive clarification on your view to maybe address this part of a previous post,to follow up on topic being discussed;
so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?


Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:. Nāgās are very irritable, and if you given them offerings on the wrong day, they will punish you. They are extremely dangerous beings, not poetic myths.


so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

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Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:27 pm

Minobu wrote:In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even.
And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?
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