Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 760
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Coëmgenu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:26 pm

I am also quite moved by the notions that the Nāgas are not giant superintelligent snakes that live under the ocean, unfortunately, thats what they seem to be in many sources.

That I am moved by attempts to look at the broader picture, and see what snakes "mean" from culture-to-culture, as universal guardians of "secret teachings", I think that this appeals to me more because it is friendly to my worldviews, not because it seems to come naturally out of the teachings.

Does anyone else here struggle with the notion that Nāgas are giant superintelligent magical snakes that live under the ocean? I certainly do. That is something very hard to believe that seems completely tangential to the teachings of the Buddha. Its almost harder to believe in Nāgas than to believe that the cessation of suffering is possible.
"My pure land is not destroyed,
yet the multitude sees it as consumed in fire,
with anxiety, fear, and other sufferings
filling it everywhere."
(Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra XVI)

All these dharmāḥ are the status of dharma, the standing of dharma, the suchness of dharma; the dharma neither departs from things-as-they-are, nor differs from things-as-they-are; it is the truth, reality, without distortion.(SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶(Prajñāpāramitāhṛdayasya Mantra)

narhwal90
Posts: 337
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby narhwal90 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:02 am

Nagas are words on a page to me, having not had any experience with them I neither accept or reject the idea. OTOH I see and am honored to have the acquaintance of drug and alcohol addicts, and family members of them, equally redeemed from wretchedness & depravity to lead useful and fulfilling lives- so I definitely believe in profound and comprehensive mitigation (if not cessation) of suffering.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 23355
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:32 am

Minobu wrote:Malcolm you called something I hold sacred claptrap.
here
This is why I implore you to clarify.


It is a pity when people hold misguided opinions to be sacred,


I assert that you actually don't know what the guy's post in question is about and that you just don't want to answer in order for it to go away.


You may assert whatever you like.


so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?



Like all the origin legends of Mahāyan̄a, it is a legend.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:05 am

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:Malcolm you called something I hold sacred claptrap.
here
This is why I implore you to clarify.


It is a pity when people hold misguided opinions to be sacred,

And yet you knock with what seems like trolling and no intention of entering the conversation except to mock




I assert that you actually don't know what the guy's post in question is about and that you just don't want to answer in order for it to go away.

Malcolm wrote:You may assert whatever you like.

and yet you mock and don't answer at all.


so your take on Lord Buddha Nagarjuna's journey to the bottom of an Ocean to retrieve Sacred Sutra Scrolls you take "Literally" ?


Malcolm wrote:Like all the origin legends of Mahāyan̄a, it is a legend.


So you get to tell us what is a legend and give no other plausible reason on how the Sutras got here.

oki doki.

also your
Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.


Common misunderstanding. Kundalini is one thing. Caṇḍalī (gtum mo) is another.

It's like that is supposed to be some epiphany or something.
thats your rebuttal and reason for calling something sacred to me clap trap.

Is donald trump catching?
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:22 am

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even.
And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?

:zzz:
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:44 am

Coëmgenu wrote:I am also quite moved by the notions that the Nāgas are not giant superintelligent snakes that live under the ocean, unfortunately, thats what they seem to be in many sources.

i like to embrace it and have my mind thrown into a head space. Like walking into a great gothic cathedral and be thrown elsewhere. Makes one feel spiritual.


Coëmgenu wrote:That I am moved by attempts to look at the broader picture, and see what snakes "mean" from culture-to-culture, as universal guardians of "secret teachings", I think that this appeals to me more because it is friendly to my worldviews, not because it seems to come naturally out of the teachings.
Stepping away from the meaning of the snake I just take it for granted in this case , it causes the same feeling again as i just explained


Coëmgenu wrote: Does anyone else here struggle with the notion that Nāgas are giant superintelligent magical snakes that live under the ocean? I certainly do. That is something very hard to believe that seems completely tangential to the teachings of the Buddha. Its almost harder to believe in Nāgas than to believe that the cessation of suffering is possible.


The Sutras are filled with other worlds and creatures. They also throw me into a head space . A different kind of spirituality than the hum drum.

It's like reading the Emerald Tablet , which has an effect on one's psyche.

I mocked the little mermaid people for some time whilst grappling with their relevance in the scheme of things.

Malcolm says their bite can give you cancer. some would say take the wrong channel and madness follows.
Most importantly always respect the wisdom behind the Sutra .

but this for me is the real deal
The Real Deal

It's the Six Yogas of Naropa , it's Holy Alchemy, The Tree of life and the Tree of Knowledge, the Kabbalah, Raja Yoga, and on and on.....

lift the covers and see the same .
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14040
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:54 am

Minobu wrote:
Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even.
And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?

:zzz:
In other words you have no idea and thus you should not be spreading false notions and confusing other people too.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 23355
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:52 pm

Minobu wrote:
So you get to tell us what is a legend and give no other plausible reason on how the Sutras got here.



There are many plausible reasons.

thats your rebuttal and reason for calling something sacred to me clap trap.


You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:16 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
So you get to tell us what is a legend and give no other plausible reason on how the Sutras got here.



There are many plausible reasons.

thats your rebuttal and reason for calling something sacred to me clap trap.


You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.


Ahhh but there is Padwan, one just needs a nudge.

Look at the Gohonzon and The Way the Characters Are Placed .

He inscribed His Life in Sumi Ink.

phpBB [video]
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 23355
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:04 pm

Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
So you get to tell us what is a legend and give no other plausible reason on how the Sutras got here.



There are many plausible reasons.

thats your rebuttal and reason for calling something sacred to me clap trap.


You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.


Ahhh but there is Padwan, one just needs a nudge.

Look at the Gohonzon and The Way the Characters Are Placed .

He inscribed His Life in Sumi Ink.



Whatever floats your boat.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
There are many plausible reasons.



You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.


Ahhh but there is Padwan, one just needs a nudge.

Look at the Gohonzon and The Way the Characters Are Placed .

He inscribed His Life in Sumi Ink.



Whatever floats your boat.

:zzz:
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:50 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:
Grigoris wrote:And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?

:zzz:
In other words you have no idea and thus you should not be spreading false notions and confusing other people too.

As I said I'm bound to secrecy from within, which as I said sounds like a" Dodge"

but if you know , if you really know then this post holds clues and keys to the accomplishment.
The actual words in the video in the context of this line of thought in the thread....word for word is poetic context in all I am pointing to...if you really know ....really reallly know.





Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
So you get to tell us what is a legend and give no other plausible reason on how the Sutras got here.



There are many plausible reasons.

thats your rebuttal and reason for calling something sacred to me clap trap.


You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.


Ahhh but there is Padwan, one just needs a nudge.

Look at the Gohonzon and The Way the Characters Are Placed .

He inscribed His Life in Sumi Ink.

phpBB [video]
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 23355
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:31 pm

Minobu wrote:
but if you know , if you really know then this post holds clues and keys to the accomplishment.



Guess you're not above flattering yourself.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14040
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:57 pm

Minobu wrote:but if you know , if you really know then this post holds clues and keys to the accomplishment.

Image
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:13 am

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
but if you know , if you really know then this post holds clues and keys to the accomplishment.



Guess you're not above flattering yourself.


well i'm well above the sand box you play in.
this constant refusal to discuss things and just knock them is boorish.


but yeah , your the guy who posted of himself he is not coming back to samsara .

the whole wait till you die for results teacher malcolm has spoken , with an entire schtick about when you die it all will happen.

and you are in great company here with what ever name he goes by. i think you got a lap dog.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:19 am

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:
but if you know , if you really know then this post holds clues and keys to the accomplishment.



Guess you're not above flattering yourself.

actually it wasn't flattering myself, I just wanted to show a dodge when I see one.


You are projecting,,,,,,,


your bud here ;
Grigoris wrote:In other words you have no idea and thus you should not be spreading false notions and confusing other people too.

and you
Malcolm wrote:You are a Nicherin Buddhist, supposedly. There is neither Kundalini yoga nor Caṇḍalī yoga in Nicherin Buddhism.


just don't get it so you attack.
thats odd to me..anyone with a semblance of realization would never react the way you do.
This kindergarten attack is deplorable.

there is no discussion.

Nichiren Shonin is a votary of the Lotus Sutra .
what He left for us is far deeper than most assume.

I've done the whole gambit of various practice, all the way up to being instructed in Completion Stage Tibetan Tantra.
I actually did not learn anything new , but appreciated the fact it verified what I had learned.

Which brings me back to Nichiren Shonin. I politely tried to show you one aspect of it being a product of what we are.

your answer...what ever floats your boat.

sad..really sad. and looky who you are in bed with...sadder still.


Sorry for the diversion in the sand box people.It is an embarrassment to me, well below the respect i have for this site..really apologize for being part and parcel to this .
live and learn eh.
shall try to move on.
d
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14040
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Minobu wrote:You are projecting,,,,,,,

...

just don't get it so you attack.
Asking somebody to qualify their claims is not considered an attack, especially in an intelligent discussion.

You responded with a bored smiley. You chose to bring the discussion down to this (kindergarten) level and now you are complaining?

When you confound Sanskrit terms and somebody who knows the meaning of the terms explains that you are mistaken, then you basically have two choices: a) accept that you are wrong and get on with understanding the "why?" b) act like a pouting five year old.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:You are projecting,,,,,,,

...

just don't get it so you attack.
Asking somebody to qualify their claims is not considered an attack, especially in an intelligent discussion.

You responded with a bored smiley. You chose to bring the discussion down to this (kindergarten) level and now you are complaining?

When you confound Sanskrit terms and somebody who knows the meaning of the terms explains that you are mistaken, then you basically have two choices: a) accept that you are wrong and get on with understanding the "why?" b) act like a pouting five year old.

the two blurbs cherry picked by you to quote me were directed to Malcolm. I don't really get much of anything off you to warrant any sort of comment hence the falling asleep zzzzzzz emoticon.


here are your posts;
Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even.
And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?


Grigoris wrote:
Minobu wrote:
Grigoris wrote:And this opinion is based on your extensive Sanskrit scholarship?

:zzz:
In other words you have no idea and thus you should not be spreading false notions and confusing other people too.


you never actually asked me anything, just some inconsequenstial kindergarten sandbox troll posts.

Grigoris wrote:Asking somebody to qualify their claims is not considered an attack, especially in an intelligent discussion.


and i have not seen anything intelligent from you in this discussion on nagas and Lord Buddha Nagarjuna just the knock and dash approach like Malcolm does to annoy people.
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Minobu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Grigoris wrote:When you confound Sanskrit terms and somebody who knows the meaning of the terms explains that you are mistaken, then you basically have two choices: a) accept that you are wrong and get on with understanding the "why?" b) act like a pouting five year old.


i did not confound the two terms, Malcolm pointed out they are two distinct terms.
I used the words "etymological roots " to explain something about their relationship in Sanskrit.
read the post.



Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Minobu wrote:Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.


Common misunderstanding. Kundalini is one thing. Caṇḍalī (gtum mo) is another.


ok , can you explain.



I will say Tummo energy is involved . In Sanskrit, i believe, the the two terms have etymological roots even. But i'm not about that and more of a street type practitioner.

Now then ,with all respect Malcolm if you wish to elaborate go for it, if not i get why.



as for Kundalini and tummo energy if you don't see as i do the relationship , well ......

it's like a tell...

now i will show you how you are projecting...

a) accept that you are wrong and get on with understanding the "why?" b) act like a pouting five year old


And what exactly am i wrong about?
maybe we can kick off an actual discussion from this mess.
I've given up on Malcolm actually discussing anything on this subject here, lets see where you go.
I'm tired of asking him to comment on things instead of this knock and dash crappolla
As he died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap
And say the Mea Culpa which you’ve probably forgot
Year by year
Month by month
Day by day
Thought by thought

Leonard Cohen

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14040
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Minobu's Muse: Lord Nagarjuna, The Lotus Sutra, The Gakki

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:48 pm

Minobu wrote:i did not confound the two terms, Malcolm pointed out they are two distinct terms.
I used the words "etymological roots " to explain something about their relationship in Sanskrit.
read the post.
How can you explain something you have no idea about? On what basis do you reject the information of somebody that knows?

And I remind you:
Minobu wrote:Now Kundalini is a very real aspect of the six yogas of Naropa. I can't and should not even being saying that. But it is pretty much in the public domain.
where do you think Tummo energy is derived from.
To which Malcolm replied:
Common misunderstanding. Kundalini is one thing. Caṇḍalī (gtum mo) is another.
Please refer to definition 2.

confound kənˈfaʊnd/ verb
verb: confound; 3rd person present: confounds; past tense: confounded; past participle: confounded; gerund or present participle: confounding
1.
cause surprise or confusion in (someone), especially by not according with their expectations.
2.
mix up (something) with something else.
Yup, you are definitely confounding... And confusing! Why don't you try loosening your grip on the slighted sense of self and maybe actually listen and learn.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


Return to “Nichiren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests