Any Rissho Kosei-Kai members?

[nichiren-123]

Where are you guys? I'd love to talk to anyone from the RKK who is on the forum

[markatex]

There used to be at least one here. Not sure if he still practices with RKK or still posts here.

There's a group about an hour or so away from me. I checked it out once, but it's not my cup of tea.

[dsaly1969]

I was a RKK member for quite a few years. I mostly practice independently now as an Ekayana Buddhist not because of any problems with what RKK teaches. It's just that the church service model which RKK adapted just does not work for me. I also focus more on O-Daimoku chanting rather than Kyoten (same thing as Gongyo for the Nichiren-focused Ekayana Buddhists) along with Taking Refuge, a short period of mindfulness meditation, and a short metta meditation. Since I believe that the insights of the Buddhadharma are meant to be practical and applied in everyday life as they assist us to have a better understanding of the world, encourage us to make more compassionate choices to make life more fulfilling, and to reduce negative habits which create unnecessary suffering for ourselves and others, instead of hoza (as I have no group) I engage in a study of Buddhadharma teachings especially the core essential teachings (Four Noble Truths, Three Marks of Existence, Eightfold Path, Twelve Causes, Ten Suchnesses, Ten Worlds, Ichinen Sanzen, etc.) and how they can be applied in understanding my everyday life and the choices I am making.

[Fortyeightvows]

I was reading Carmen Blacker's book Catalpa Bow, which is really a great book for so many reasons. Anyways, she writes that the founders of both Rissho Kosei-Kai and it's parent organization, Reiyūkai were both inspired through possession. I knew that this was the case for many of the other Japanese new religions but I was surprised that this was the case for these two Nichiren organizations. So, I went ahead and googled both of these organizations and found nothing mentioning this part of their story on any of their english websites. Interesting, right? So what is the reason they leave out this important detail from their english websites, and a question for any members of these organizations, is this discussed among members of the organization?
I'll probably be reading some books about these organizations in the near future, but in the meantime any input is welcome.

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[dsaly1969]

In RKK, Myoko is talked about and is venerated as a Cofounder in the Kyoten; however, there is no one of comparable role in the modern organization. My understanding is that she was particularly gifted in divination when kami-possessed. I do know that the spli between Reiyukai and RKK was initially over a disagreement between these two respective women. In modern day practice neither organization has a strong Shinto influence. Reiyukai focuses on Lotus Sutra recitation as a form of ancestral veneration with memorial tablets. RKK has that ancestral veneration focus as well but has evolved into an organization that puts a lot of stress into studying core Buddhist teachings (see the book "Buddhism for Today" as a good example) and daily life application through hoza (sort of a Buddhadharma group counseling session).

[Minobu]

ok so what differences or improvements to Lotus Buddhism did this "possessed by Kamis " person bring to the table?

what is different in the their Nichiren dharmic practice that Nichiren Shonin did not reveal ?

what new "Stuff" is in this organization?

[Minobu]

My understanding is that she was particularly gifted in divination when kami-possessed.

it is my understanding that once a person actually is gifted, it is for them personally ,and there is never a need to proclaim the divinations to others.

the accuracy of the divinations which are uncanny when first revealed but once the person goes public the accuracy quickly vanishes.
i have seen this in enough instance to wonder about it.

[dsaly1969]

Personally I don't think she brought anything "new" to the organization. In the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, most Japanese were very poor and endured economic and other hardships (especially the period immediately after WWII). Many new religious movements including SGI, RKK, Reiyukai, Konkokyo, etc. started with the hope that prosperity would come with their religious adherence so these groups often attracted folks who were looking for healings and divinations to help them overcome suffering. SGI itself was initially based on the premise of "chanting for stuff and success" which is a form of Buddhist folk magic although SGI did not incorporate many of the Shinto folk-beliefs as did other groups. Heck I have been to Nichiren Shu temples where they were handing out household omamoris with enshrined kami to bring good luck to the household (they also have ones for cars). This is a part of Japanese folk culture, much like the folk magic of Hispanic Catholics. In any case many of these groups shed most of this early fascination with folk magic practices although some remain as remnants (like car omamoris) as it goes with Japanese culture. It is one reason why I am independent though.

[rory]

DSaly: t]his is a part of Japanese folk culture, much like the folk magic of Hispanic Catholics. In any case many of these groups shed most of this early fascination with folk magic practices although some remain as remnants (like car omamoris) as it goes with Japanese culture. It is one reason why I am independent though

.

I have no knowledge of Catholicism, but please don't project your Western Christian monotheistic biases onto Buddhism which evolved in a syncretic polytheistic and animist culture.

Esoteric practices (aka "magic" if we don't like them) are a normative part of Tendai and Shingon, and Nara and Zen sects too perform the popular goma ritual, I have omamori from the Shinto Inari Fushima temple. It is the use of the dismissive "folk religion" that also casts Pure Land as not really Buddhist, which it is though I appreciate that Nichiren loathed it.

wishing for "wordly benenfits" which Christians are taught to despise is perfectly normal in Japanese religion.

If anyone feels this way and considers themselves a normative Buddhist (as opposed to one who subscribes to nihilist Western Buddhism) I suggest you read Ian Reader's "Practically Religious" as you will find Thai Buddhists doing the same.
gassho
Rory

[Minobu]

I personally do not see anything wrong with developing your inner functions to alleviate poverty , cure health, and increase a happy life.

i believe it is written somewhere in the Lotus Sutra that one should have a Happy life.

christians pray all the time for stuff as do hindus and shamanistic stuff.

[dsaly1969]

I personally do not see anything wrong with developing your inner functions to alleviate poverty , cure health, and increase a happy life.

i believe it is written somewhere in the Lotus Sutra that one should have a Happy life.

christians pray all the time for stuff as do hindus and shamanistic stuff.

Chanting for desires violates the whole basis of the 4 Noble Truths which are the foundational teachings of Buddhism for those of us who do not accept Fuji school innovations. Even though many lay Buddhists of all schools do indeed chant for desires and good luck and such, it does not make it proper Buddhist practice. This has nothing to do with "Western nihilism" ~ just ask any Theravada or Mahayana ordained Buddhist monastics what they think about such practices. I have as I know many monastics personally, including abbots of Buddhist monasteries here in southern California and in Asia.

[Minobu]

I personally do not see anything wrong with developing your inner functions to alleviate poverty , cure health, and increase a happy life.

i believe it is written somewhere in the Lotus Sutra that one should have a Happy life.

christians pray all the time for stuff as do hindus and shamanistic stuff.

Chanting for desires violates the whole basis of the 4 Noble Truths which are the foundational teachings of Buddhism for those of us who do not accept Fuji school innovations. Even though many lay Buddhists of all schools do indeed chant for desires and good luck and such, it does not make it proper Buddhist practice. This has nothing to do with "Western nihilism" ~ just ask any Theravada or Mahayana ordained Buddhist monastics what they think about such practices. I have as I know many monastics personally, including abbots of Buddhist monasteries here in southern California and in Asia.

it's all in the motive.

developing and wishing ,or asking for are much different approaches.

if you think living in poverty as i have in the past, is a good thing and one should stay at that level of their growth...well...you miss the point of Lotus Buddhism.

we develop both the conventional and the spiritual, inside of selves without asking any deity or Buddha for help.

the help is already there in the methodology.
developing all your potential is the thing.
and wealth health and charm and being affable and kind and generous and all round great person....is a good thing ...

lack of health poverty crankiness and jealousy ill mannered hateful , ignorant, angy is not a good thing.

hanging out with the Eagle Peak Crowd enables one.

[dsaly1969]

Deprivation and poverty are never a good thing (I come from a lower working class background and work in Compton, not some privileged background.). I think the difference is "chanting for the attainment of desires" vs chanting to develop the internal resources (increased wisdom, patience, insight, etc.) to overcome adversities and hardships in one's life. The first would create more unnecessary suffering while the other is the whole purpose of Buddhist practice.

Years ago, Ryuei posted a good article about this.

http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Ryuei/desire.html

[markatex]

"Chanting for desires" as an expedient to get people engaged in the practice is fine (I know many look askance at it) but it is an expedient. On the other hand, I'm not thrilled with the idea of Buddhist practice that is disengaged from daily life.

I've been lurking on Buddhism forum on Reddit and it seems that at least once a week, someone will post something like "I'm new to Buddhism, and I've decided to give away all my stuff, quit my job, and stop caring about everything because I read that we're not supposed to be attached to anything. Is that right?" I worry that overly emphasizing the Four Noble Truths, etc., leads to that kind of thinking.

[dsaly1969]

I agree that Buddhism should not be disengaged from daily life. Proper understanding of the dharma and the application in daily living especially in choices and overcoming instinctual reactivity lead to better life conditions. It sounds like perhaps more work needs to be done in getting people to a proper understanding and proper application of the Four Noble Truths (refer to Right Understanding or View, Right Resolve, and Right Effort in the Eightfold Path) as understanding ichinen sanzen properly is very difficult without learning the fundamentals of Buddhism that build up on one another to lead up to it.

[rory]

Chanting for desires violates the whole basis of the 4 Noble Truths which are the foundational teachings of Buddhism for those of us who do not accept Fuji school innovations. Even though many lay Buddhists of all schools do indeed chant for desires and good luck and such, it does not make it proper Buddhist practice. This has nothing to do with "Western nihilism" ~ just ask any Theravada or Mahayana ordained Buddhist monastics what they think about such practices. I have as I know many monastics personally, including abbots of Buddhist monasteries here in southern California and in Asia.

I suggest you reread Ch. 25 of the Lotus Sutra:

If women who seek sons bow and make offerings to Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, they will give birth to blessed, virtuous, and wise sons. If they seek daughters, they will give birth to upright and handsome daughter
Living beings are beset with hardships,
And oppressed by limitless sufferings.
The power of Guanyin's wondrous wisdom
Can rescue the world from suffering....
.In the midst of contention, when faced with lawsuits,
Or when someone is terrified on the battlefield,
If he evokes the strength of Guanyin,
All his many enemies will scatter and leave.

So basically the Lotus Sutra tells me to pray for help in lawsuits, war, problems, and having a nice child.

DSaly this is a Nichiren forum, and Nicihiren Buddhism except for Nipponzan Myohoji isn't monastic and devoted to helping people in this life, according to the Lotus Sutra. As for 'proper buddhist practice' this is the kind of protestant reformist Buddhism that Westerners projected onto it in the 19th century. It's nothing new.
gassho
Rory

[rory]

Chanting for desires violates the whole basis of the 4 Noble Truths which are the foundational teachings of Buddhism for those of us who do not accept Fuji school innovations. Even though many lay Buddhists of all schools do indeed chant for desires and good luck and such, it does not make it proper Buddhist practice. This has nothing to do with "Western nihilism" ~ just ask any Theravada or Mahayana ordained Buddhist monastics what they think about such practices. I have as I know many monastics personally, including abbots of Buddhist monasteries here in southern California and in Asia.

I suggest you reread Ch. 25 of the Lotus Sutra:

If women who seek sons bow and make offerings to Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, they will give birth to blessed, virtuous, and wise sons. If they seek daughters, they will give birth to upright and handsome daughter
Living beings are beset with hardships,
And oppressed by limitless sufferings.
The power of Guanyin's wondrous wisdom
Can rescue the world from suffering....
.In the midst of contention, when faced with lawsuits,
Or when someone is terrified on the battlefield,
If he evokes the strength of Guanyin,
All his many enemies will scatter and leave.

So basically the Lotus Sutra tells me to pray for help in lawsuits, war, problems, and having a nice child. It's all about skillful means hoben to help all beings.

DSaly this is a Nichiren forum, and Nicihiren Buddhism except for Nipponzan Myohoji isn't monastic and devoted to helping people in this life, according to the Lotus Sutra. As for 'proper buddhist practice' this is the kind of protestant reformist Buddhism that Westerners projected onto it in the 19th century. It's nothing new.
gassho
Rory

[dsaly1969]

This thread is about RKK and not general Nichiren Buddhism (which, other than SGI and Nichiren Shoshu DOES teach the 4 Noble Truths by the way - no other Nichiren schools explicitly promote chanting for stuff) and I am answering from the viewpoint of RKK and most mainstream Mahayana Buddhism (who also accept the Lotus Sutra but do not put that spin on Chapter 25). Most Nichiren Shu do not even promote chanting for stuff.

[narhwal90]

SGI does not emphasize the 4 Noble Truths but they are generally mentioned in the context of the role of daimoku in ending suffering. Chanting for "stuff" is an expedient intended to demonstrate effectiveness to a newcomer, but chanting for health, fortune is widely accepted and results such as family harmony, success in endeavors are prized.

[joybringer]

Hi

I truly know that I am very late to the party on this discussion thread. I am not even sure if anyone will read this response but I wanted to respond anyway. In truth I rarely come out here anymore other than to lurk and listen to the wonderful discussions that are to be had out here.
The reason why I am responding to this thread is because I am Dharma Teacher of Rissho Kosei Kai and have had the very good fortunate of having been a District Leader in SGI …smiles

And I have to say that I am extremely pleased and happy with the generally very kind words that most have of RKK out here. I really think that the world is in such turmoil today that we need to do everything in our collective power to find ways towards compassionate dialogue, regardless of our particular path, for building a more dynamic and harmonious future.

I wanted people to know that RKK is a Lotus Sutra based practice which is based on the totality of the Lotus Sutra. That we recognize the importance of Chapters 2 & 16 in the Lotus Sutra but that we study and absorb it all. That we also realize that the Lotus Sutra was in the main a reconciliation Sutra. That is, after years of internal debate and often acrimony the Lotus Sutra was complied with the Great desire to elevate all people regardless of their condition or station. In this way RKK is said to acknowledge all Buddhists' paths as valid. This is in stark contrast to those who see other Buddhist “practicing heretical teachings” for example.

Despite this backdrop, we also revere Nichiren Daishonin and include him in our daily devotional prayers.

It could be said that the essence of RKK teachings is 1) The inherent Buddha Nature in all things, persons and circumstances and 2) the need to revere whomever and whatever comes before you as a message from life itself or the “Buddha” for your growth. Our emphasis isn’t on "winning" or "losing" but on recognizing the great harmony that can be seen in all life, at all times and in all circumstances. It is the living reality of cherishing every encounter that we may experience.

Despite rumors often put out by others we do not have ancestor worship in our practice but rather understand the continuity of our life and that of our ancestors. RKK’s practices ancestor remembrance and this veneration coincides perfectly with Nichiren’s Gosho “The Origin of the Service for Deceased Ancestors.”

Also I noted some incorrect statements made about our Gohonzon. Indeed the RKK object of devotion is the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni and is derived specifically from and in part from Nichiren’s comment in his Gosho and Chapter 16 Lifespan of the Lotus Sutra. In our case the Gohonzon is the fusion of what is seen as person and law. The goal is to harmonize not just with the object of devotion but with the life of the universe itself as it is manifesting to you moment by moment. So chanting becomes for us our meditation.

The Four Noble Truths, Three Seals of the Dharma, the Eight Fold Path and implementing mindful awareness of impermanence are all, as well as fundamental Buddhist teachings are used in RKK to tackle real problems in a practitioners lives not just as a theory. Hence we can see over time why the Buddha actually proscribed these teachings to his followers.

Finally, RKK considers itself a Shakyamuni sect and as such is willing to, as I stated above, interact with all other forms of Buddhism.

Wishing you the very best
Palms Together