Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

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bcol01
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Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by bcol01 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:16 pm

How can the two be compatible?

markatex
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by markatex » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:20 pm

I can’t imagine.

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Minobu
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Minobu » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm

i look at Jesus as Buddha.
He tamed the Roman Empire through his teachings over time.
brought love to the world.
i think he was an emanation of Buddha and helped mold the world into a better place .

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Queequeg
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:43 pm

Can you fit Jesus into the Lotus Sutra?
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Minobu » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:17 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:43 pm
Can you fit Jesus into the Lotus Sutra?
in the sense other Buddhist teachings seem different than Lotus Buddhism .
the whole one two three vehicle thing.

like the man said sometimes Buddha is a cool breeze or bridge .

Jesus was born in a violent empire.
If we examine history his teachings whether changed or altered or watered down did shape that Empire and bring about a lot of love and compassion to that part of the world.
The effect of Christian thought is apparent in Europe and North america in the very way we treat each other.
It wasn't like that at the time of his birth .
his teachings of love had an impact...

so they did not lead to liberation or enlightenment but they tamed the wild .

Just like that summer breeze did not bring enlightenment but helped out in some way.
Only this was much larger than a bridge .

there is wisdom in Jesus's teachings on how to treat each other and look after those that need help..

it's just the way i see it.

there is this huge theory he went to the himalayas during that 20 year period where they have no idea where he was...and there is a temple or monastery that describes someone like Jesus who was there at that time period.

theory, fact , historic...dunno...

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Queequeg
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:32 pm

Right, that's the expedient means approach. But Nichiren Buddhism focuses on the shedding of expedients to reveal the real. How do you reconcile the shedding of provisional identities with faith in Jesus?
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by DGA » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:48 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm
i look at Jesus as Buddha.
He tamed the Roman Empire through his teachings over time.
brought love to the world.
i think he was an emanation of Buddha and helped mold the world into a better place .
As Gibbon pointed out, the rise of Christianity coincided with the decline of the Roman Empire.

:cheers:

illarraza
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by illarraza » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:57 pm

"When the Buddha is looked upon as the sovereign and the gods as his ministers; the relations between superior and inferior are correctly ordered in accordance with the rules of propriety, and therefore the nation should be well governed." -- Nichiren

The human Buddha is sovereign. Allah, Jesus, Indra, and Brahma are his ministers.

"Since the beginningless past, we living beings have never for an instant been separated from this wish-granting jewel of Myoho-renge-kyo. But, befuddled by the wine of ignorance, we fail to realize that it is hidden in the lining of our robes, and we are content with merely a little gain. Though we are living beings who, simply by chanting Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, could quickly attain Buddhahood, we observe petty precepts such as the five precepts or the ten good precepts, being reborn as a result in the realm of heavenly beings, as deities such as Brahmā or Shakra, and thinking that a wonderful accomplishment. Or at times we are born as human beings, becoming rulers of various countries, high ministers, court nobles, or other court officials, and we think ourselves incomparably happy. Thus we content ourselves with such little gains and are delighted with them.

However, the Buddha has taught that these accomplishments are mere prosperity in a dream, a phantom joy, and that we should simply accept and uphold the Lotus Sutra and quickly become Buddhas."

Nichiren on contenting ourselves with such little gain as being reborn as President of the United States, Supreme Court justice, Jesus, Allah, or Brahma

Some mistaken adherents in the Nichiren Community maintain,

"Having continuous faith in something greater than ourselves (God, Allah, Buddha, Jesus Christ, The Divine, The Law of The Universe…) that will give us the necessary strength and courage to weather any storm and celebrate any joyous miracle. It is what makes all things possible. The path of absolute happiness –true happiness from within."

Truly, this is a non-Buddhist approach and leads to such mistaken teachings as Guru Yoga, High Priest worship, or SGI mentorism.

"Man cannot understand spiritual things 1 Cor. 2;14" -- Disciple of Jesus

Yes, man fails to understand that Jesus, Brahma, Allah, the Gods of the Sun and Moon Yahweh, and the native deities of all indigenous people, worship the votaries of the Lotus Sutra. That is why it is such a severe sin to go against a votary of the Lotus Sutra while proclaiming an inferior teaching. -- Disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin.

Mark

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Minobu » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:01 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:32 pm
Right, that's the expedient means approach. But Nichiren Buddhism focuses on the shedding of expedients to reveal the real. How do you reconcile the shedding of provisional identities with faith in Jesus?
I don't.
I'm a Nichiren Buddhist who believes that Jesus is an emanation of Buddha.
It would be impossible to take the effect of what Jesus Christ did for the world out of the world.
So much of his compassion for the common man and the bringing together of so many different peoples under one goal and tradition, is ingrained in our society.
So like yeah i'm a Nichiren Buddhist practicing in a society much adapted from the teachings of Christ.

are there anything wrong in his teachings...i don't think so...did his teachings get twisted...i think so ...but the basics are still there and managed to survive mankind's meddling with them...
not so different than Nichiren's teachings and what His teachings are going through.

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Minobu » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:08 pm

illarraza wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:57 pm

Mark
don't get me wrong Mark...i don't look upon Jesus as the Son of God or a god.
I don't adhere to the christian ideal of living a life in order to be reborn in some heaven for eternity .

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm

DGA wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:48 pm
Minobu wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm
i look at Jesus as Buddha.
He tamed the Roman Empire through his teachings over time.
brought love to the world.
i think he was an emanation of Buddha and helped mold the world into a better place .
As Gibbon pointed out, the rise of Christianity coincided with the decline of the Roman Empire.

:cheers:
Chicken or Egg? Its been a while since I read a condensed Gibbon, but I don't think he was a fan of Christianity... Was Christianity one of the causes of the fall? Another way to look at the pacification of a once great martial empire? I did quit reading once he got to all those anonymous Byzantine emperors, so not sure how the study ends...
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Queequeg
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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:34 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:01 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:32 pm
Right, that's the expedient means approach. But Nichiren Buddhism focuses on the shedding of expedients to reveal the real. How do you reconcile the shedding of provisional identities with faith in Jesus?
I don't.
I'm a Nichiren Buddhist who believes that Jesus is an emanation of Buddha.
It would be impossible to take the effect of what Jesus Christ did for the world out of the world.
So much of his compassion for the common man and the bringing together of so many different peoples under one goal and tradition, is ingrained in our society.
So like yeah i'm a Nichiren Buddhist practicing in a society much adapted from the teachings of Christ.

are there anything wrong in his teachings...i don't think so...did his teachings get twisted...i think so ...but the basics are still there and managed to survive mankind's meddling with them...
not so different than Nichiren's teachings and what His teachings are going through.
I can roll with that.

honji suijaku Jesus into Samantabhadra.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by The Cicada » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:06 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm
DGA wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:48 pm
Minobu wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm
i look at Jesus as Buddha.
He tamed the Roman Empire through his teachings over time.
brought love to the world.
i think he was an emanation of Buddha and helped mold the world into a better place .
As Gibbon pointed out, the rise of Christianity coincided with the decline of the Roman Empire.

:cheers:
Chicken or Egg? Its been a while since I read a condensed Gibbon, but I don't think he was a fan of Christianity... Was Christianity one of the causes of the fall? Another way to look at the pacification of a once great martial empire? I did quit reading once he got to all those anonymous Byzantine emperors, so not sure how the study ends...
A kinder, gentler, pan-European phenomenon of colonialism happens which sows the seeds of global culture?
bcol01 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:16 pm
How can the two be compatible?
Outwardly, there are some similarities, but they aren't blatant similarities. Pure Land is much more like the gentler side of Christianity than Nichirenism is to any aspect of it.

It isn't really possible to "be both," since each excludes adherence to other religions. Nichiren's teaching, however, is capable of subsuming at least the gist of any non-Buddhist religious teaching into itself because it's based on Tiantai thought which views all teachings as the Buddha's upāya. Ultimately an individual would have to make a choice in order to correctly follow either religious path, though if they decide to follow Nichiren's, they would realize that any miracles or apparitions they or others experienced were actually manifestations of the Buddha's upāya reaching out in ways that unenlightened beings are willing to accept.

Personally, I suspect that the Virgin of Guadalupe, Mexico's patron saint credited with winning the compassion of the Spanish for the indigenous people, was in fact Avalokiteshvara acting on behalf of the Buddha—or something along those lines.This might actually explain why a Tibet House was built there despite Mexico being a non-Asian third-world country. I view the apparitions of Christian saints and the like experienced by those I know personally in the same way—the Buddha is reaching out to them, despite their ignorance.

So it is possible for Nichiren's teaching to offer the opportunity to recontextualize elements of Christianity in a way other than negative, but it is not possible to "serve two masters," as it were. Ultimately, only one figure, either Christ or the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, can be accepted as being definitively correct. Either you are a helpless sinner or you wake up to the ever present opportunity of complete and perfect enlightenment, which is the meaning of the Lotus Sutra.

On this point, Nichiren (and, ultimately, the Lotus Sutra itself,) is "on the level" of the strict and effective monotheists: There is only One way.

:buddha1:

:namaste:

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Re: Can a person be both a Nichiren Buddhist and a Christian?

Post by MiphamFan » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:34 am

DGA wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:48 pm
Minobu wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm
i look at Jesus as Buddha.
He tamed the Roman Empire through his teachings over time.
brought love to the world.
i think he was an emanation of Buddha and helped mold the world into a better place .
As Gibbon pointed out, the rise of Christianity coincided with the decline of the Roman Empire.

:cheers:
The Roman Empire continued in the East for more than a thousand years after the rise of Christianity.

When Christianity rose, Christian intellectuals also used it to justify the social order such as slavery (c.f. Augustine).

From a Buddhist perspective I guess the main benefit was that it ended animal sacrifice and abortion (though the latter might also be due to the extinction of silphium).

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