I lost my job today...

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jkarlins
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by jkarlins » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:04 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:23 pm
jkarlins wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:30 am
yes, good post

Jake
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Minobu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:06 pm

Lindama wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:57 pm
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
thats so far from the reality of the situation .
you would do well to try and understand a tad about what it means to practice Lotus Buddhism .
Again your statement is about a samsaric eternal nightmare...do you want to get off that trip or dwell with it in the way you deal with your life now.

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Lindama
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Lindama » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:25 pm

then, take credit for the message in the picture you posted.... the classic samaric nightmare of power and it's long implication.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Coëmgenu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:50 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:06 pm
Lindama wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:57 pm
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
thats so far from the reality of the situation .
you would do well to try and understand a tad about what it means to practice Lotus Buddhism .
Again your statement is about a samsaric eternal nightmare...do you want to get off that trip or dwell with it in the way you deal with your life now.
Remember when the asura asked you why you were constantly living in "lower life conditions", Minobu? You got awfully mad at him.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Minobu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:32 pm

ah!
i see poor lindhama needs help saving her from the dreaded reality of Nichiren buddhism as portrayed by the mean and nasty minobu...i've been told people via pm poison letters from the nether regions of DW./


we got Coëmgenu at 2:41 timestamp roflmao.

look there is a lot that modern day psychiatry can do for people in the proper hands.
and a lot of well and good is done in social services...
but none of this is the cause for Buddhahood or stemming the repeats in life after life..
so like Coëmgenu if you want to save lindama from anything ...save her from herself.

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Lindama
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Lindama » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:39 pm

thank you very much, I have no complaints
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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Coëmgenu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:32 pm
we got Coëmgenu at 2:41 timestamp roflmao.
You don't even know what your own practice is man, but you pull this nonsense on me.

Terrible things may well happen to you when you chant. Indeed, regardless of it you chant. Lindama is absolutely correct in saying this, and you are levelling a cloud of obfuscation at her.

Case-and-point: the OP chanted. The OP lost his job. The OP chanted.

Even if he had retained his job against all odds, that he chanted would be the miracle, not his retention of employment.

For that matter, no matter what you get when you chant, the chanting is the miracle, not what you think you got for it.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Queequeg
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Queequeg » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:41 pm
For that matter, no matter what you get when you chant, the chanting is the miracle, not what you think you got for it.
I'm rather dense and don't understand the hubub above... but this I agree with wholeheartedly.

To hear the Buddhist teachings and to be able to practice them is a wonder.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Queequeg » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:53 pm

At this time, I remind everyone about this:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=26060
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Minobu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:55 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:41 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:32 pm
we got Coëmgenu at 2:41 timestamp roflmao.
You don't even know what your own practice is man, but you pull this nonsense on me.

Terrible things may well happen to you when you chant. Indeed, regardless of it you chant. Lindama is absolutely correct in saying this, and you are levelling a cloud of obfuscation at her.

Case-and-point: the OP chanted. The OP lost his job. The OP chanted.

Even if he had retained his job against all odds, that he chanted would be the miracle, not his retention of employment.

For that matter, no matter what you get when you chant, the chanting is the miracle, not what you think you got for it.
just so you know...i'm not actually talking about the drivel that happens in samsara...lost job , wife cheats on you, gets cancer...
all this stuff...is just stuff that happens down here....

from a Nichiren Buddhist perspective ...thats the leaves of the tree...each year or in our case each life they return...turn yellow and die only to come back next year or next life...

i might sound all harsh and sgt majoreee but this practice is to end all that...

we use the drivel...no matter how harsh or how trivial...we use the drivel to end it...

so like i'm coming off cold...cause it's drivel.... samsaric drivel ... the real task at hand is ending it all..

or using to learn and develop..
the practice is designed for the average joe caught in samsara ....read the goshos...see where Nichiren Shonin used the daily life happenings of the peasants and Samurai to encourage them to carry on..with their practice in spite of it all.


we are not on the same page here...

i'm not here to debate the workings of social work or psychiatry...thats a whole other paradigm and life system. Lindmama no matter how well intentioned is talking this whole lost job thing from like ..well not from a life after life karmic samsaric view..

she said ...in a Nichiren section..
Lindama wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:12 am
. Now, as adults, ......... You will find a new maturity that won't rely on chants and prayers ....
best wishes
linda

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Coëmgenu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:02 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:55 pm
she said ...in a Nichiren section..
Lindama wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:12 am
. Now, as adults, ......... You will find a new maturity that won't rely on chants and prayers ....
best wishes
linda
This "new maturity" could well be a better understanding of Nichiren Buddhism, in which we are mature enough to continue practice and to practice at all despite either getting or not getting what we want.
Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:06 pm
Lindama wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:57 pm
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
thats so far from the reality of the situation .
you would do well to try and understand a tad about what it means to practice Lotus Buddhism .
Again your statement is about a samsaric eternal nightmare...do you want to get off that trip or dwell with it in the way you deal with your life now.
She clarified what she meant. You don't seem to accept that? This is a perfectly reasonable thing to say because it is perfectly true. Jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:10 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:55 pm
just so you know...i'm not actually talking about the drivel that happens in samsara...lost job , wife cheats on you, gets cancer...
all this stuff...is just stuff that happens down here....

from a Nichiren Buddhist perspective ...thats the leaves of the tree...each year or in our case each life they return...turn yellow and die only to come back next year or next life...

i might sound all harsh and sgt majoreee but this practice is to end all that...
This framing of things as "drivel in samsara", lost job, wife cheats, someone gets cancer, this framing of things as "stuff that happens down here", this only the leaves of the tree, would Ven Nichiren not refer to that as the seperate teaching? Samsara vs dharmakaya? That separation?
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Queequeg
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Queequeg » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:02 pm
Jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting.
I realize you two are having a particular discussion, but pertinent to this thread...

Losing your job in the course of samsaric ups and downs is one thing. Losing your job because of your practice is another. In the latter case, this is the suffering of persecution for the sake of the dharma and has a different meaning and implication.

Teachings on such persecutions can be found in the series of personal letters to Shijo Kingo. Shijo Kingo was a close supporter of Nichiren. He was a samurai as well as a medical doctor. For a time, he lost his fief because his lord opposed his practice. Shortly after, Shijo Kingo's lord fell ill, and despite the falling out, Shijo Kingo went to treat his lord and cured him. His fief was restored and additional lands were given to him.

Part of Shijo Kingo's story, he was pretty Alpha - kind of stereotypical macho warrior who liked to party hard. In the course of carousing, he was often staggering around town late at night. In a series of letters Nichiren advised him to exercise caution when he went out at night because there were other samurai who harbored enmity against him due to his relatively elevated status and his staunch and outspoken faith in the Lotus. They wanted to kill him.

One of those counsels is one of my favorites:

"Drink sake only at home with your wife, and chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo. Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy. Regard both suffering and joy as facts of life, and continue chanting Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, no matter what happens. How could this be anything other than the boundless joy of the Dharma? Strengthen your power of faith more than ever."

Later, when Nichiren was sentenced to be beheaded, Shijo Kingo and his brothers accompanied Nichiren to the execution ground and resolved to die with their teacher. The execution never happened... miraculously. Another story.

You can visit a temple in Kamakura today that was Shijo Kingo's residence.
“Once you have given up the ghost, everything follows with dead certainty, even in the midst of chaos.”
-Henry Miller

"Language is the liquid that we're all dissolved in.
Great for solving problems, after it creates the problems."
-Modest Mouse

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world!"
-The Grateful Dead

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:29 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:10 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:55 pm
just so you know...i'm not actually talking about the drivel that happens in samsara...lost job , wife cheats on you, gets cancer...
all this stuff...is just stuff that happens down here....

from a Nichiren Buddhist perspective ...thats the leaves of the tree...each year or in our case each life they return...turn yellow and die only to come back next year or next life...

i might sound all harsh and sgt majoreee but this practice is to end all that...
This framing of things as "drivel in samsara", lost job, wife cheats, someone gets cancer, this framing of things as "stuff that happens down here", this only the leaves of the tree, would Ven Nichiren not refer to that as the seperate teaching? Samsara vs dharmakaya? That separation?
it's metaphor.
leaves of the tree are like your life and all the different karmic appearances in one's life.

pruning the leaves and making the tree look more appealing...you are still grooming the effects...the leaves..

the sap that makes the tree is like your karma..

as long as the sap remains the same the same karma is played out over and over...hence the same leaves year after year.

This Practice is all about cause and effect /or our karma..

one must deal with the root cause...the karma..

for me the practice is like an alchemy to solve that ...

nothing that happens is coincidental...or
Lindama wrote:
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
she misses the karmic connection to it all..it is offensive in the sense it is not even hinting at the fact all that we all are are resulting from karmic results.

shit happens..meh...
that will keep you locked in the cycle of samsara forever...

so if i sound cold ..it's because she ignores , and now you, everything that is taught in Nichiren's gosho.

it's simple.

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:34 pm

Well, "shit happens meh" can be likened to Buddhadharma without the implied apathy, which I certainly did not read into the post in question.

Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. A well-instructed disciple of the noble ones also feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. So what difference, what distinction, what distinguishing factor is there between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person?

(Sallasutta)
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:29 pm

nothing that happens is coincidental...or
Lindama wrote:
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
she misses the karmic connection to it all..it is offensive in the sense it is not even hinting at the fact all that we all are are resulting from karmic results.
"Dear OP, you lost your job because when you were the duke of a vast kingdom on a far-off world-system you embezzled money".

Is that substantially more helpful?
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Minobu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:39 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:34 pm
Well, "shit happens meh" can be likened to Buddhadharma without the implied apathy, which I certainly did not read into the post in question.

Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. A well-instructed disciple of the noble ones also feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. So what difference, what distinction, what distinguishing factor is there between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person?

(Sallasutta)
we are in the Nichiren section...you said i don't know what i am talking about...

i kept it simple...and with the proper care in directing the focus to practice and the simple reason as to why...

she is asking for us not to chant...be adults....so i guess you are too. there is something more adult and effective than chanting...

cool ...knock yourself out.

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Minobu
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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Minobu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:39 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:29 pm

nothing that happens is coincidental...or
Lindama wrote:
well, the fact is, jobs can be lost chanting or not chanting. Things happen. Life happens. I mean no offense to Buddhism.
she misses the karmic connection to it all..it is offensive in the sense it is not even hinting at the fact all that we all are are resulting from karmic results.
"Dear OP, you lost your job because when you were the duke of a vast kingdom on a far-off world-system you embezzled money".

Is that substantially more helpful?
very adult and caring of you..

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:43 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:39 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 pm
Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:29 pm
she misses the karmic connection to it all..it is offensive in the sense it is not even hinting at the fact all that we all are are resulting from karmic results.
"Dear OP, you lost your job because when you were the duke of a vast kingdom on a far-off world-system you embezzled money".

Is that substantially more helpful?
very adult and caring of you..
I'm just trying to understand your complaint. You said she is "not even hinting at the fact all that we all are are resulting from karmic results". Hence my reply.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Re: I lost my job today...

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:46 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:39 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:34 pm
Well, "shit happens meh" can be likened to Buddhadharma without the implied apathy, which I certainly did not read into the post in question.

Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. A well-instructed disciple of the noble ones also feels feelings of pleasure, feelings of pain, feelings of neither-pleasure-nor-pain. So what difference, what distinction, what distinguishing factor is there between the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones and the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person?

(Sallasutta)
we are in the Nichiren section...you said i don't know what i am talking about...

i kept it simple...and with the proper care in directing the focus to practice and the simple reason as to why...

she is asking for us not to chant...be adults....so i guess you are too. there is something more adult and effective than chanting...

cool ...knock yourself out.
I read the exchange very differently. I read an OP stating that he lost his job. I read a Lindama saying that such things will happen regardless of practice. That is the cold-water-on-the-face reality, the "all harsh and sgt majoree" truth. Lindama gave it, not you.

If one were to teach the opposite, then people would leave Nichiren Buddhism the second they didn't get what they chanted for.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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