Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

amanitamusc
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:59 pm

This thread has strayed a bit from the op so here is something to add some flavor.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ta ... ORM=VRDGAR

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:08 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:59 am
Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm


From a Christian POV it's spot on:

It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
He didn't leave anyone out, he just taught the Dharma, it is entirely up to beings to follow it of their own volition. In fact, to truly follow it, it has to be done of their own volition. So yeah other religions can be great, but there is no need to see them as somehow being Dharma.
I don't think we are on the same page...let me reiterate..
The Buddha turns the Dharma wheel is not that same as His Nirmanakaya teachings...when he turns it after being asked, all sorts of teachings appear all over the different realms of samsara in many forms with many different teachers , gurus etc.
I think His Sambhogakaya body is the one which turns the Dharma Wheel .

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:15 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:40 am
Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm


From a Christian POV it's spot on:

It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
The spirit of God hovering over the waters...... is the Wisdom of Sophia...... it's easily a buddhist sensibility as well on the inner plane.... since when is form not Buddhism??? The turning of the dharma wheel excludes nothing.... there is no such thing as lower teachings.

We have enough of this exceptionalism in our politics, we must see it for what it is.... and see the Buddha in everything. Else, forget it.

linda

ps... I notice this has been posted in Nichiren. I'm not responding in kind. The question appeared to be more general.
i beg to differ when i said lower teachings..
the spirit of my post is to imply even such teachings as the Christian one God the Creator and one life and one death and voila there you have it then ...is a lower teaching in the sense it does not lead to any True Dharma understanding or Teaching...

it just affords where one views a life where one out of the fear of God and an eternal life in hell due to one life experience tries to embrace christian generosity, charity, and compassion...it produces merit , keeps the masses at bay with their personal demons ...and develops character in the long run of life after life development ...but it is not a path to Buddhahood. It is sort of basic training...lol...
for me this is due in the turning of the Dharma Wheel i just explained further in my above post.

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:18 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 am
Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..
Some Christians with a conscience ask questions like; if a primitive tribe have never even heard of Christ is it fair they go to hell? Surely God wouldn't just abandon them...

It's a serious issue for those within religions looking outwards. There are the 'deserving condemned' (the willful bad guys, who trash every opportunity) and the 'innocently condemned'. The liberal-minded like to keep a space in their hearts for the innocent ones, hard-liners are not as forgiving.
try reading the above two posts...I'm not into christian theology...but i see the dharma Wheel as something that causes all sorts of teachings...to appear for individuals of different development and capacity.

Geshe La insisted that any teaching that cause a sentient to produce any sort of loving kindness is from the Buddha turning the Dharma Wheel...

it's a view of what exactly it is...I am not referring to Nirmanakaya teachings...

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:47 pm

Geshe la said .."People would be surprised to know the truth as to who Jesus Christ really was"
i never asked him , but i felt he inferred that he was a tool for this teaching to be produced for future people to enjoy the benefits of it...it does not produce Buddhahood and thats the confusing part...why would/does Buddha create totally opposite teachings for some people to use.

it all comes down to loving kindness and the capacity of the people in order to produce those thoughts and words and actions in their daily life...

if Christianity is a tool for some...so be it...Shazam

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srivijaya
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:57 pm

Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:47 pm
Geshe la said .."People would be surprised to know the truth as to who Jesus Christ really was"
Like an avatar of Buddha, or vice-versa?

I guess you could see it from that POV if you wanted to, but I don't buy it exactly. Even if Christ had met Buddhist teachings during his 'missing years', he didn't transmit them in the New Testament.

Odd discussion for the First Advent + Super Moon.

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srivijaya
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:00 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:40 am
We have enough of this exceptionalism in our politics, we must see it for what it is.... and see the Buddha in everything. Else, forget it.

linda
Wise words Linda.

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:04 pm

srivijaya wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:57 pm
Minobu wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:47 pm
Geshe la said .."People would be surprised to know the truth as to who Jesus Christ really was"
Like an avatar of Buddha, or vice-versa?

I guess you could see it from that POV if you wanted to, but I don't buy it exactly. Even if Christ had met Buddhist teachings during his 'missing years', he didn't transmit them in the New Testament.

Odd discussion for the First Advent + Super Moon.
it doesn't matter even Christ never heard one speck of BuddhaDharma...thats not the point....

it's a lower teaching is all..someone had to start it...

i don;t know what geshe La meant ...but i did get the concept of all these different teachers and gurus appearing all over the universe leaving behind a variety of teachings...a lot of which are not Buddhist Thought...but afford people to live better in thought word and deed...

i'm not hung up on the actual teaching or teacher...not even a speck of it other than it cause people to do and think good things...

thats the only point...

i've heard a lot of speculation of Jesus and where he studied....thats not in this equation...bu i do feel He was a tool of the turning of the Dharma wheel and left a teaching that induces good in people's thought word and deeds...thats it...
not going to take the teaching apart...it is not Buddhist...does not matter...it works for certain people ...eventually we all end up practicing and becoming Buddhas...the Lotus sutra Guarantees that. it's a long road.....a long road....lol

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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:55 pm

one needs to take in account the actual development of what christianity has become today as well...
it was shaped by Rome and various protestant stuff...different catholic churches such as various orthodox catholics and roman catholics...

all this shaped what we have now and what people practiced in the past.

so i do not lok at it like sending avatars...but shaping a teaching and a philosophy to do a certain thing ....

the whole enchilada if you will...over time....

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:59 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm
I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
How "Buddhist" an answer do you want?

Jesus identified his ātma with 3 dharmāḥ: the path (hodos), the truth (alētheia), and the life (zōē). The path and the truth are completely self-explanatory. The "life" is zōē, and refers to "the spiritual life" (v.s. bíos, or 'biological life').

If you find these 3 dharmāḥ, you have found Jesus, and may then find the Father Who Lives, them being the same.

Where to look for Jesus? The Gospel of Thomas will tell you that:

When you habitually recognize the abstract sovereignty as inside, outside, yourself, then it shall recognize you and you shall understand that you are the "Sons of the Father Who Lives". If however you shall recognize yourself not, then you are in an abstract poverty and you are an abstract poverty.

Or if you only like canonical sources:

Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, ‘The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, “Look, here it is!” or “There it is!” For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.’

(Luke 17:20-21 saying almost the same thing as Thomas 3)
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

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Lindama
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:36 pm

Very good discussion on this page folks.... note The Gospel of Thomas.... you won't find it in too many, if any, bibles. There's a nice thread here if we don't get too hung up on the details. We don't really know much ... thus, my experience with Religion 101 on page one. Thomas goes beyond that, and so does Mystic Christianity. It's an entirely different sensibility than the institution of the church.

what is this.... Adyashanti quoted this verse often.... gate gate....

Matthew 8:20
Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

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